NSKL Main Thread

I reposted these because I didn't want them to get lost in the shuffle in this thread. The first one was by Ted & the second one was my response.

****NOTE*****

AFTER this post by Ted I went back & ADDED an 'Option Four' of NOT changing ANY language in the current ballpark rule. shortly after I did this the first TWO votes for this option were none other than the trade masterminds of Peter & Ted.

Now I would like to ask the league if we should take a vote NOT on their initial trade but to disallow/void everything that happened after the initial trade of the two ballparks regarding the dropping of a ballpark after trading for it then picking up a new ballpark & trading that new ballpark back to Peter so he can have it???


quote from Ted:
"Rick,

I don't understand your option 3. If we keep the rules the way they are, and the interpretation remains the one I described in my email as B, then what Peter and I did is completely legal and should not be forbidden. If we re word it the way you describe, then option 3 is exactly the same as option 1.

It's fine that you don't like what we did, and I'm fine with making these changes if the majority support them, but you can't just make all the options in a vote exclude it, when not everyone agrees with you."



My response:

"Ted,

Being that some very questionable tactics were used regarding not the initial ballpark trade between you & Peter but definitely the second part of it regarding the dropping, picking up & trading AGAIN of ballparks by you then yes I feel the second part of this amazing trade should probably be brought to a league vote. You both have even admitted as to how it might look regarding all that was done in reference to how this rule is currently worded & how it can be looked at in different ways. So why don't we bring it to a league vote?? After you dropped STL after acquiring it in the trade is where I believe the 3 year clock was violated. That's where the vote would come into play. NOT the initial trade between both of you. Let's not play like some of us are fools on here because this trade looks like it was all done to get Peter the ballpark he so desired to help the RH batters on his team. I'll give you both credit for being CREATIVE though.

Thanx,

Rick P"


Please feel free to weigh in with your thoughts, comments & opinions. It's an OPEN forum.


Thanx Everyone for your time.

Rick P

Hoboken Astros

Traditionally, this kind of arguing is laid off once a vote is proposed and underway, but it's becoming clear that there is a bottomless pit of enmity for the trades. It's clearly personal to some, but can we all try to move forward with a vote?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:29 pm
Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.




OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option One

Traditionally, this kind of arguing is laid off once a vote is proposed and underway, but it's becoming clear that there is a bottomless pit of enmity for the trades. It's clearly personal to some, but can we all try to move forward with a vote?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:29 pm
Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.




OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option One

So, I want to make sure I'm understanding. Are we having two separate votes? One to make a clear rule and then one to vote on the trade itself. Or when it states in option 1 and 2 hold remain then that vote is saying no to the trade and making a rule?

It is not my understanding that any of these options invalidate the trade because they are all rule changes, not clarifications. I was under the impression we were voting to change the rule moving forward, not rendering a decision on a particular trade that arose out of the ambiguous rules and I still argue is completely within the current rules.

For the record, I'm voting option four in large part because it would be unfair for me to vote to change a rule after benefitting from it.

As I see it, every owner currently has the right to trade ballparks regardless of time spent there - hence the reason for a rule vote! I would not deny any other owner that right after I enjoyed it. It would be like buying a gun and then voting to kill the right to bear arms...

Can we all just try to remain civil? It's not fun when people get angry. Let's vote on 1-4 and move on with the draft!!!!!

Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.

OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option One

To the League,

Just to clarify it's up to the members of this league if they want to vote on this trade regarding anything that happened after the initial ballpark trade. Neil had raised this question earlier in these discussions & obviously I agree that he makes a valid point. My focus is getting this ballpark rule straightened out language wise. As Peter has stated it's NOT a new rule. It's a CHANGED one!! What's done is done as far as the trade is concerned probably so I think focusing on the options as far as the rule itself should be what we focus on right now. I think the way the language is now written into the ballpark rule specifically for options One & Two is now straightforward & to the point & I think it takes the wriggle room OUT of the original ballpark rule.

If the league so feels that the trade was unfair to begin with as how it was handled or devised to get Peter the ballpark he wanted then others need to step up & raise those concerns other than myself.

I just want to put this entire mess in the rear view mirror & move forward. I DO NOT WANT OUR LEAGUE FRACTURING off into a million pieces or oblivion over this. I LUV this league & it's the ONLY league I'm involved in. My focus has been on the wording of the ballpark rule as it's currently written.

If Option One or Two were to be voted on & passed I would leave it up to Peter & Ted if they were to voluntarily undo or rework their trade but as far as I'm concerned the TRADE IS DONE. Did I like the trade?? Of course NOT but I think the current rule is WORSE because it allowed the trade to happen to begin with.

Cooler heads must prevail & I know that starts with me.

So now can we just cast votes, move on to our cuts for the supplemental draft & go forward with season2?!?!
It's already been said within our group by others who are in multiple leagues that this is the best group by far so let's keep it that way.

Thanx for your time everyone.

Rick P

Hoboken Astros

To the League,

Just to clarify it's up to the members of this league if they want to vote on this trade regarding anything that happened after the initial ballpark trade. Neil had raised this question earlier in these discussions & obviously I agree that he makes a valid point. My focus is getting this ballpark rule straightened out language wise. As Peter has stated it's NOT a new rule. It's a CHANGED one!! What's done is done as far as the trade is concerned probably so I think focusing on the options as far as the rule itself should be what we focus on right now. I think the way the language is now written into the ballpark rule specifically for options One & Two is now straightforward & to the point & I think it takes the wriggle room OUT of the original ballpark rule.

If the league so feels that the trade was unfair to begin with as how it was handled or devised to get Peter the ballpark he wanted then others need to step up & raise those concerns other than myself.

I just want to put this entire mess in the rear view mirror & move forward. I DO NOT WANT OUR LEAGUE FRACTURING off into a million pieces or oblivion over this. I LUV this league & it's the ONLY league I'm involved in. My focus has been on the wording of the ballpark rule as it's currently written.

If Option One or Two were to be voted on & passed I would leave it up to Peter & Ted if they were to voluntarily undo or rework their trade but as far as I'm concerned the TRADE IS DONE. Did I like the trade?? Of course NOT but I think the current rule is WORSE because it allowed the trade to happen to begin with.

Cooler heads must prevail & I know that starts with me.

So now can we just cast votes, move on to our cuts for the supplemental draft & go forward with season2?!?!
It's already been said within our group by others who are in multiple leagues that this is the best group by far so let's keep it that way.

Thanx for your time everyone.

Rick P

Hoboken Astros

Thank you for the clarification. As far as I'm concerned the trade is done

Traditionally, this kind of arguing is laid off once a vote is proposed and underway, but it's becoming clear that there is a bottomless pit of enmity for the trades. It's clearly personal to some, but can we all try to move forward with a vote?

Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:29 pm
Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.




OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--Option 1
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option One

Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.

OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--Option 1
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option 1

To the League,

Just to clarify it's up to the members of this league if they want to vote on this trade regarding anything that happened after the initial ballpark trade. Neil had raised this question earlier in these discussions & obviously I agree that he makes a valid point. My focus is getting this ballpark rule straightened out language wise. As Peter has stated it's NOT a new rule. It's a CHANGED one!! What's done is done as far as the trade is concerned probably so I think focusing on the options as far as the rule itself should be what we focus on right now. I think the way the language is now written into the ballpark rule specifically for options One & Two is now straightforward & to the point & I think it takes the wriggle room OUT of the original ballpark rule.

If the league so feels that the trade was unfair to begin with as how it was handled or devised to get Peter the ballpark he wanted then others need to step up & raise those concerns other than myself.

I just want to put this entire mess in the rear view mirror & move forward. I DO NOT WANT OUR LEAGUE FRACTURING off into a million pieces or oblivion over this. I LUV this league & it's the ONLY league I'm involved in. My focus has been on the wording of the ballpark rule as it's currently written.

If Option One or Two were to be voted on & passed I would leave it up to Peter & Ted if they were to voluntarily undo or rework their trade but as far as I'm concerned the TRADE IS DONE. Did I like the trade?? Of course NOT but I think the current rule is WORSE because it allowed the trade to happen to begin with.

Cooler heads must prevail & I know that starts with me.

So now can we just cast votes, move on to our cuts for the supplemental draft & go forward with season2?!?!
It's already been said within our group by others who are in multiple leagues that this is the best group by far so let's keep it that way.

Thanx for your time everyone.

Rick P

Hoboken Astros


Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:53 pm

Here are the ballpark rule options to vote on.

Option One:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 3 years (6 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 3 years (6 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time accrued.

Option Two:

Teams/Owners must hold/remain with the SAME ballpark for 2 years (4 seasons) continuous before ANY drop, change or trade can occur with that ballpark & then can make a drop, change or trade with that ballpark ONLY between seasons 1 & 2 or during the offseason (fall/winter) after term has been met. Once a team does make a drop, change or trade the clock STARTS again new for another 2 years (4 seasons) continuous with that ballpark & so on & so forth. There would be NO resetting of the clock if this rule were to go into effect thereby allowing teams/owners to keep accrued time with their current ballparks & NOT losing that time already accrued.

Option Three:

Keep current rule with some language/wording changes so that it's cleaned up in a way so as NOT to have what recently has taken place with the same two teams trading, dropping & trading again to work around the 3 year ballpark commitment.

Option Four:

KEEP current rule in place as is.

OWNER OPTION (1-4)
Jay--
John--
Rick A--Option 1
Ray--
Roger--
Russ--
Steve--
BillyV--
Neil--
Ted-- Option 4
Peter-- Option 4
Rick P--Option 1