ATG VIII Card previews

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Roosky

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 9:54 am

High priced quality cards are out there for several hall of famers.

1937 Joe Dimaggio
1936 Earl Averill
1925 Jim Bottomley
1911 Sam Crawford
1928 Goose Goslin
1942 Joe Gordon
1993 or 94 Paul Molitor
1958 Richie Ashburn
1929 Tony Lazzeri
1973 Willie Stargell
1938 Ernie Lombardi
1950 George Kell
1930 Travis Jackson
1962 Frank Robinson
1923 Joe Sewell
1928 Heinie Manush
1925 Sam Rice
1936 Bill Dickey
1928 Harry Heilmann
1937 Charlie Gehringer
1897 Wee Willie Keeler

Obviously some of these guys would not be all that highly priced but several would be playable in 140 mil cap leagues. They are hall of famers and the very definition of all time greats. I think it is a shame that their best seasons are not available. As someone that has poured over the stats of hall of fame players for countless hours in my youth I would love to get a chance to play with them.
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Radagast Brown

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 10:13 am

I am generally not as much into the pre War players but I would give that Wee Willie Keeler a try. The problem may be that they do not have the stats to make that Keeler card in a super advanced format.

I can't believe they don't have Paul Molitor's best card, also I would like to see a few more Yount and Trammell cards.

It is really tough to please everyone! I really hope the set is released today! I love SOM and rarely complain in fact I like to defend them and cut them some slack ( the products rock) but since they said they might release it last week it should really be ready by today-please!
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nevdully's

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 10:41 am

Mr Baseball World wrote:How do the price changes show a lack of understanding of how and why we play?


Why most of us play, is to try and win. Even in a theme concept like Charlie's recently posted awesome "all clutch" team the goal is usually winning. Sure some teams are set up to primarily try and break records, or a "team theme" is attempted in a non themed league, but with few exceptions no one is plunking down their $20 bucks for 2 months of "I wanna use 25 guys named Larry"

Most of us don't have a bunch of active teams going at one time.
We don't veer too far off the beaten path.
We get comfortable with certain cards and certain parks, and even unfortunately imo with certain caps.
Few play across all caps...and this as much as anything holds us all back...Holds us back from learning more, really understanding more, and of course from playing more...which goes along way towards helping us learn more. :(

Most agree smaller caps like 80m are much more likely to be filled with small ball type teams and stadiums.
The bigger the cap the more the Home run becomes relevant.

Many of these price changes are tied into the bp Hr.

BUT.

What does raising the bp HR accomplish in a practical sense? It doesn't impact higher cap leagues much, but it does impact smaller caps leagues quite a bit. So what we had was Ryne Sandberg 2L 8.24m seldom used in smaller caps already, especially where F. Frisch 7.63m would often be a top choice, and now we have that same rarely used Sandberg card at almost 10m (9.74) and the Frisch card down to just above 7m... Even it you could set up your team and park to get reasonably solid numbers from Sandberg would you spend 2.67 more knowing there will probably be 70% rh pitching and 50-75% small ball type parks? Who would you use? My prediction is that Sandberg card has been priced out of smaller caps.

Same with Rickey....10M+ for a 15 game risk that's very ball park dependent... in smaller caps knowing our comfort zone is low bp type parks there? How often would you use him?

Yet Bowa...Larry Bowa down to his lowest ever at 2m...he's often used when at 3.37 and is a winner... and he becomes absolute gold in 80m...and that's just 4 names, I can site two dozen more examples, of players being priced out of smaller caps, but I'll just answer my own question

"What have we accomplished with these price changes?"

We've made it that much harder to win with big bats in smaller caps, pushing smaller caps even farther into small ball than they already are.

And being creatures of habit this creates an ever bigger reluctance to move away from our comfort zone. Because once we play with Bowa and Frisch in 80m at 2m and 7m, we don't know what to do with Rickey and Sandberg each costing around 10m...and we won't move up in caps....leading to even less play across caps than ever....and as we try and become specialists in an even smaller niche, leagues fill slower...growth which needs to come mostly from our existing community, shrinks, because the perceived difference between small caps and even a little bigger cap becomes...ummm uncomfortable for many.

Pitching?

Most would agree, while we "could" set up leagues geared towards dead ball type pitching numbers we simply do not.
Hitting "the way we choose to play" rules the day.

No pitcher, not one, not even the dreaded Murray card or the mispriced Higbe card or the usually sweet value of the Kaat card should have gone up...none of them. I'll ask again, "raise the price of some pitchers to serve what point"?

In higher cap leagues it has little impact so again this price change affects smaller caps only...so why raise pitching there? To create more offense?????
To some degree it's a catch-22 because if pitching costs less we "might" spend more on hitting, probably would, but why? because that's how we choose to play. Knowing this, there was certainly, absolutely no reason under the sun to raise the price on any pitchers...none.

Keep in mind the Eck card...Now up to 6.68 for an R1...Absolute insanity....Why??? Well first let's look at how effective any and all R1s are set up to be....R1 = after 1 inning he's potentially fatigued, therefore should be used only in the 9th...Yet the game doesn't allow for "1 inning not before the 9th" the game states "1-2 innings max, not before the 8th". The game is set up for R1s to fail... it allows many 8th inning entrances, often creating fatigue by the 9th (if not sooner) and faster than you could say "poor bullpen settings" the guy you spent 6.68 on or any R1 for that matter has blown your save, especially because fatigue "hits" aren't just singles anymore ....Every R1 until better bp controls are available should have come "down" in price imho.
Last edited by nevdully's on Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Roosky

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 10:50 am

Not sure where you are getting those salaries nev. I just checked and the new price on that Henderson card is 8.75. The Eckersley card went up to 5.44. Tamargo went up to .98. Perhaps your computer is showing the price in pesos. Just kidding but something is up.
Last edited by Roosky on Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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nevdully's

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 10:54 am

Was 10.10 last night here....


http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/playerset/browse/1


I hope you're right Roosky
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nevdully's

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 10:58 am

I'll be more than happy to be wrong on all counts here.



Where are you seeing prices?
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Roosky

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 10:59 am

Interesting. I have been using the method that morpheus posted to be able to hack into the individual cards. First I have seen of that list. Hopefully those numbers are wrong because that would be some insane changes.
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WeatherNut

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 11:00 am

The new Wells card reminds me of a classic Greek hero. Mighty in most respects but with a single tragic flaw.....
Good power, HRs and doubles. Good overall bat with OPS over 1.03. Some speed being an * stealer. Can even bunt (A).
Great range with the coveted 1. Fairly balanced as a 1L should not need platooning. And bulletproof at first glance.

Then the tragic flaw. Does all that positive karma outweigh that 40 error rating? :D

Would love to see more cards revealed for those who have the knack for finding them. And would love some of the old fashioned discussions on the merits or demerits of the cards like we used to have. I really enjoyed those. Some got comments the card was unusable and and I agreed and avoided. Others were denounced unusable and I saw potential and set out to prove the card could be a key part of a winning team.

Bottom line any opinions (even negative) have the potential to lead to interesting discussions. For example if I said Wells error rating was just too high for my blood how many of you would jump on me and burn me at the stake for sacrilige?


Ah, I think they screwed this one up. The 1931 Negro League set was specifically set up to play with the 1928-1932 Major League sets. They have DEFENSIVE RATINGS set for THAT era. The shortstops were in the E30-E45 range. In the past we have always NORMALIZED those defensive ratings DOWN to modern era levels.

Therefore, Wells SHOULD BE an E25/E26, right in the range of Yount, Cronin, Wagner, and the other Wells card.

WN
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Roosky

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 11:01 am

Nev, that list you are looking at is ATG III version 1. Read the first post by morpheus on this page and you will see how to view the cards.
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scorehouse

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Re: ATG VIII Card previews

PostTue Jul 08, 2014 11:03 am

got the same table as roosky
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