Rule question

after reading (albeit not retaining) the tourney rules I have Marlins Park for my round 2 and 3 teams, what do I do?

JT

If you've already started playing both, you can't do anything. It happened to me in a tournament three years ago. I got docked 20 pts, It sucked, but those are the rules.

If you haven't started playing your event 3 team, contact GBrookes and SOM as quickly as possible and see if they'll let you change it.

no, both are well in play, next year... thanks

If you've already started playing both, you can't do anything. It happened to me in a tournament three years ago. I got docked 20 pts, It sucked, but those are the rules.

If you haven't started playing your event 3 team, contact GBrookes and SOM as quickly as possible and see if they'll let you change it.

Thanks for pointing out this possibility, l.strether. And yes, if you contact strat directly as soon as possible, and before play starts, you can get them to fix it for you. They have done this to fix inadvertent ballpark mistakes on several occasions. They are fairly quick with this.

You should also contact me by PM and on these boards (PM is best, since it is automatically forwarded to my real life email) as soon as possible, and then I will also contact strat. (2 emails are better than 1, maybe!).

Too bad you didn't notice sooner bbfan. Oh well, spilled milk I guess.

Geoff

Thanks for pointing out this possibility, l.strether. And yes, if you contact strat directly as soon as possible, and before play starts, you can get them to fix it for you. They have done this to fix inadvertent ballpark mistakes on several occasions. They are fairly quick with this.

I myself did give the advice to BBfan, but I just realized a problem with it. A player re-selecting his stadium best fitting his already-drafted team would have a decided advantage over the players who chose their stadiums before they drafted. Everyone would love to be able to pick their stadium after they drafted. Therefore, players really shouldn't be able to change their stadiums after (accidentally or purposefully) picking a stadium a second time.

Obviously, BBfan did this accidentally. But a less ethical player could actually purposefully pick a stadium a second time as a way to be able to choose his stadium after drafting his team.

I would close that loophole, GBrookes.

Thanks for pointing out this possibility, l.strether. And yes, if you contact strat directly as soon as possible, and before play starts, you can get them to fix it for you. They have done this to fix inadvertent ballpark mistakes on several occasions. They are fairly quick with this.

I myself did give the advice to BBfan, but I just realized a problem with it. A player re-selecting his stadium best fitting his already-drafted team would have a decided advantage over the players who chose their stadiums before they drafted. Everyone would love to be able to pick their stadium after they drafted. Therefore, players really shouldn't be able to change their stadiums after (accidentally or purposefully) picking a stadium a second time.

Obviously, BBfan did this accidentally. But a less ethical player could actually purposefully pick a stadium a second time as a way to be able to choose his stadium after drafting his team.

I would close that loophole, GBrookes.

Good point, l.strether. I'll give that some more thought, but it sounds correct. I think I would like to leave it as being at the commissioner's discretion - i.e. if the commissioner believed that it was truly an inadvertent error, that he could permit it to be fixed. But I see your point, and I will give that some more thought over the next few days, and make a statement regarding this issue, and the rule about fixes vs no fix permitted.

Thanks for pointing out this possibility, l.strether. And yes, if you contact strat directly as soon as possible, and before play starts, you can get them to fix it for you. They have done this to fix inadvertent ballpark mistakes on several occasions. They are fairly quick with this.

I myself did give the advice to BBfan, but I just realized a problem with it. A player re-selecting his stadium best fitting his already-drafted team would have a decided advantage over the players who chose their stadiums before they drafted. Everyone would love to be able to pick their stadium after they drafted. Therefore, players really shouldn't be able to change their stadiums after (accidentally or purposefully) picking a stadium a second time.

Obviously, BBfan did this accidentally. But a less ethical player could actually purposefully pick a stadium a second time as a way to be able to choose his stadium after drafting his team.

I would close that loophole, GBrookes.

Good point, l.strether. I'll give that some more thought, but it sounds correct. I think I would like to leave it as being at the commissioner's discretion - i.e. if the commissioner believed that it was truly an inadvertent error, that he could permit it to be fixed. But I see your point, and I will give that some more thought over the next few days, and make a statement regarding this issue, and the rule about fixes vs no fix permitted.

GBrookes,

Even if a player did forget the rules and make a mistake, you still cant' reward him with an advantage over other players in the league and competition. If you let him pick his stadium post-draft when all other league players picked their stadiums pre-draft, that's exactly what you'd be doing. With all due respect, there is no room here for "commissioner's discretion."

Also, leaving such a decision to "commissioner's discretion" would be very problematic for a paid contest for prizes with cash value. As you're aware, published established rules of a paid contest for cash prizes function as a contract between contest giver and participant. You do not want to give any manager an opening for a justified complaint of bias and a subsequent request for a refund due to breach of contract/contest rules. Considering allowing a player to select his stadium post-draft would put other players at a disadvantage, and you would have no factual evidence to amply support your decision, the complaining player manager would have a strong case.

You do play in keeper leagues with some players and know them (and others) much better than you know other players in the competition. If you gave any of these players the opportunity to re-select their stadiums after drafting and compete against players who picked their stadiums before drafting, it would look bad and could justify a refund complaint to SOM. Just as importantly, it would, as we have agreed, upset the competitive balance of the league (and competition) itself.

This isn't about your ethics; I don't question those. It's about the complete appearance of objectivity on the part of the commissioner of a paid contest, as well as the utmost fairness of the competition. That appearance of objectivity, as you as an accountant knows, is as important as your objectivity itself.

l.strether wrote:
"

Thanks for pointing out this possibility, l.strether. And yes, if you contact strat directly as soon as possible, and before play starts, you can get them to fix it for you. They have done this to fix inadvertent ballpark mistakes on several occasions. They are fairly quick with this.

I myself did give the advice to BBfan, but I just realized a problem with it. A player re-selecting his stadium best fitting his already-drafted team would have a decided advantage over the players who chose their stadiums before they drafted. Everyone would love to be able to pick their stadium after they drafted. Therefore, players really shouldn't be able to change their stadiums after (accidentally or purposefully) picking a stadium a second time.

Obviously, BBfan did this accidentally. But a less ethical player could actually purposefully pick a stadium a second time as a way to be able to choose his stadium after drafting his team.

I would close that loophole, GBrookes.

Good point, l.strether. I'll give that some more thought, but it sounds correct. I think I would like to leave it as being at the commissioner's discretion - i.e. if the commissioner believed that it was truly an inadvertent error, that he could permit it to be fixed. But I see your point, and I will give that some more thought over the next few days, and make a statement regarding this issue, and the rule about fixes vs no fix permitted.

GBrookes,

Even if a player did forget the rules and make a mistake, you still cant' reward him with an advantage over other players in the league and competition. If you let him pick his stadium post-draft when all other league players picked their stadiums pre-draft, that's exactly what you'd be doing. With all due respect, there is no room here for "commissioner's discretion."

Also, leaving such a decision to "commissioner's discretion" would be very problematic for a paid contest for prizes with cash value. As you're aware, published established rules of a paid contest for cash prizes function as a contract between contest giver and participant. You do not want to give any manager an opening for a justified complaint of bias and a subsequent request for a refund due to breach of contract/contest rules. Considering allowing a player to select his stadium post-draft would put other players at a disadvantage, and you would have no factual evidence to amply support your decision, the complaining player manager would have a strong case.

You do play in keeper leagues with some players and know them (and others) much better than you know other players in the competition. If you gave any of these players the opportunity to re-select their stadiums after drafting and compete against players who picked their stadiums before drafting, it would look bad and could justify a refund complaint to SOM. Just as importantly, it would, as we have agreed, upset the competitive balance of the league (and competition) itself.

This isn't about your ethics; I don't question those. It's about the complete appearance of objectivity on the part of the commissioner of a paid contest, as well as the utmost fairness of the competition. That appearance of objectivity, as you as an accountant knows, is as important as your objectivity itself."

My reply:

These are all good points, l.strether. I think you're 100% right.

The "no ballpark substitution" rule will remain in effect throughout the regular season and playoffs. The only exception will be where a ballpark substitution occurs unintentionally as a "glitch" in the strat gaming system. I know this has happened twice during my 3 years as commissioner - it was a result of a glitch in the online system that I think has been fixed by strat now.

Before each round of the playoffs begin, for each player, I will list their already "taken" ballparks on these discussion boards, as a reminder to them, to cut down on errors. But the "no fix" rule will be enforced, except where it arises as a result of the glitch in the gaming system (not through their own mistake). By the way, l.strether, "glitch" means that it was already evident which ballpark they had selected, as displayed online, and then it is subsequently "switched away" against their wishes, and by the online gaming system itself - not by them.

Incidentally, the unintentional glitch switch for ballparks used to occur when a player had multiple strat screens open, and "toggled" back and forth between teams - especially a new team that was being created in another new league. When you go back to an "old" screen that you had open previously, on rare occasions it would actually change your ballpark for your old team (already underway playing games in an old season!). I believe that this glitch has been fixed already. However, it might be a good idea to close windows with already created teams, before creating a new team from scratch. Also, it would be a good idea to close the window for the new team as soon as you are done with that team, before switching to another strat window. Like I said, I think this has already been fixed by strat, but I would be careful anyway.

Geoff

This seems complicated and I may be missing the issue.

But if someone picks the same park for a second team, and before the second team's season starts he contacts the Commissioner and asks for second team's park to be changed, couldn't the Commissioner just assign him a random park that he hasn't used? I don't see how someone could obtain any advantage by choosing the same park twice and then being assigned a random one for the second team. (Does anyone want to pick a team and then be assigned a random park?) The Commissioner wouldn't have to exercise discretion. And someone who makes an honest mistake and catches it before the season starts wouldn't be penalized--except to the extent he doesn't get to chose his ballpark.

As I say, though, I may be missing something here. This is my first tournament.

This seems complicated and I may be missing the issue.

But if someone picks the same park for a second team, and before the second team's season starts he contacts the Commissioner and asks for second team's park to be changed, couldn't the Commissioner just assign him a random park that he hasn't used? I don't see how someone could obtain any advantage by choosing the same park twice and then being assigned a random one for the second team. (Does anyone want to pick a team and then be assigned a random park?) The Commissioner wouldn't have to exercise discretion. And someone who makes an honest mistake and catches it before the season starts wouldn't be penalized--except to the extent he doesn't get to chose his ballpark.

As I say, though, I may be missing something here. This is my first tournament.

You are definitely missing something here about the problems with "commissioner's discretion" in these matters. I made those problems very clear in my last post, which GBrookes agreed with 100%. You need to read that post again...and deciding whether or not a mistake was "honest" or not is using "commissioner's discretion."

As to the randomizer, that would still be a problem. If an SOM randomizer assigned the errant manager a park beneficial to his team, he would still be benefiting from his own mistake that should have cost him. And all other league managers would have legitimate cause to request a refund.

It's very simple. The rules clearly state that you can't use the same stadium twice. Those have been the rules for years. So, don't use a stadium twice, and you'll be fine. if you do do so--purposefully or accidentally--that is entirely your fault, and you should pay the established penalty. It's not SOM's or the commissioner's place to work around your violation of the rules.