The Phenomenal Dale Murray

and lastly I think we need to get rid of all the Super RPs because there's just not enough hitting and homeruns in ATG

"The ATG series isn't really about the all time greats. It long ago became about all time great seasons or all time great Strato cards. "

True that.

I'm fine with players who had great seasons being included, I'm more fine with players who had short careers, and had some phenomenal ones being included. But I'm not ok with players who had 3/4 seasons being included. Those players should be dumped.

Its tough for me to see why we need to have the RPs changed to reflect realism when we have multiple teams in a league scoring over 1000 runs in a season.

A team(s) scoring 1000+ runs is a little more common in MLB then relievers pitching 300+ innings.
One has happened, one has not.

Go to the Records page and see how many teams have scored 1250+ runs in a season

How many teams in MLB history have 500+ HRs? we got em here by the plenty...So yeah lets get rid of Dale Murray and we'll be back to the realism we all crave.

I am neutral on the super reliever topic. I was simply pointing out that the comparison lacked reasoning.
I believe it all comes down to pricing. Gates Brown is priced to be a full time platoon against LH'ed pitching, not a hitter who had 104 plate appearances. When pricing relievers I don't believe they had 300 innings in mind for anybody.
Strat is a very competitive game and players are looking for any edge they can get, if that means 350 innings out of a reliever then so be it.
I fault strat not the guy trying to win.

I agree...although not so much that there's any fault really...just another example of how we play the game differently from how it's meant to be played.

I do find it peculiar that of all the very unrealistic results we get, from BP HRs, (should be halved) to Barry Bonds hitting 118 HRs, driving in 282 RBI, scoring 274 runs in a season...to 500+ hrs by a team...and ***any*** other R4 that's decent *including 10+M Walter Johnson right down to 1.39 Al Mcbean that a Super RP type has been done forever (even before the Murray card) ....The ONLY card that constantly gets singled out is Murray....and not singled out as the poster boy for all that's unrealistic...or even all that's unrealistic with the bullpen logic..just singled out as in get him out! And if he goes all will be fine and dandy...just can't for the life of me understand most in this community.

Says the guy who worked with strat to change the relieve strategy to be able to utilize Dale Murray in 7 different bullpen roles so he always goes in and then "discovers" Dale Murray and drafts him in his first 15 leagues Dale Murray is available in.

The basic problem with this (and most other baseball sims) is that half of the results come from the batter card and half from the pitcher. In reality, 80-90% of the result of a typical plate appearance in the major leagues is controlled by the pitcher. If the pitcher hits his spots with an intelligent pitch sequence, there's damned little that even the best hitter can do with it. Greg Maddux was living proof of that; stuff-wise he wasn't in the same area code as Clemens, Ryan, Randy Johnson, or Pedro, but results-wise he was right there.

I think most players here define "realism" as, "When I get my favorite players, my team should always win at least 110 games."

I have occasionally lobbied for the simplest of all fixes to the Gates Brown and Super Reliever problem - when a guy gets to his actual PA or IP total, he becomes irrevocably injured for the rest of the season in that league, with the appropriate add/drop penalty required to replace him. As for the argument that this rule should only apply to pitchers, that presumes that Gates could have kept up his 1968 stats for a full season as a platoon regular. This assumption seems unwise to me, since in 1967, in 105 PA's, his triple slash line was .187/.286/.286 and in 1969 his triple slash line for 100 PA's was .204 / .250 / .290.