The Phenomenal Dale Murray

Wow Charlie, you're either extremely limited in your ability to read and understand properly or just intentionally trying to twist the things I said...most likely that latter...because you twisted (or missed) everything I said...I'll type slower and it might help you.

Actually Charlie...I'm not going to respond to any of it...What I've learned (it's taken me awhile) is that there are many, many times, in all different circumstances, no matter what is said, no matter how it's said, even written in black on white...they'll just see it how they want to see it....most people's minds are closed on a given subject.

I'll just be thankful I don't often come into contact with you here, or in leagues.

NEV WROTE

But if one understood that in 80m Tincup at 2.79 and even McBean at 1.39 are both probably even more valuable given Murray costs 5.99 and both capable of upper 200 innings maybe you could see how someone might think they both sorta fall into that super rp catagory

The point of my post was to show that in any cap Dale Murray is worth about 4 million more than his card. I could not possibly envision a scenario where either of those are worth 6-7 million as a reliever. Valen asked me what my issue with Murray was and that everyone knew how good he was, I have a disagreement with that basic statement. Other relievers worth more than the value charged, yes in 80 million and helpful in many circumstances, but equivalent or better than Murray no way, and I think you know it unless you either disagree with the value of Murray or can offer a 6-7 million dollar defense of one of those 2.

The whole point of why I started to post was that Nev was questioning why people worried about Dale Murray pitching 300-400 innings and he did not understand it when Ben Tincup or Al McBean is also capable of pitching a lot of innings.

well, based on what you said here, it kind of seems like the point of your posts was to tell Nev he was wrong, but what do I know?

The point of my post was to show that in any cap Dale Murray is worth about 4 million more than his card.

If true why when I posted this...."I do find it peculiar that of all the very unrealistic results we get, from BP HRs, (should be halved) to Barry Bonds hitting 118 HRs, driving in 282 RBI, scoring 274 runs in a season...to 500+ hrs by a team...and ***any*** other R4 that's decent *including 10+M Walter Johnson right down to 1.39 Al Mcbean that a Super RP type has been done forever (even before the Murray card) ....The ONLY card that constantly gets singled out is Murray....and not singled out as the poster boy for all that's unrealistic...or even all that's unrealistic with the bullpen logic..just singled out as in get him out! And if he goes all will be fine and dandy...just can't for the life of me understand most in this community."

Your first and immediate response was this...."Says the guy who worked with strat to change the relieve strategy to be able to utilize Dale Murray in 7 different bullpen roles so he always goes in and then "discovers" Dale Murray and drafts him in his first 15 leagues Dale Murray is available in."


Does that attack questioning my integrity on BPv2 sound like you were just trying to explain why "You" think Murray is worth 10m at any cap?

Sounds to me like you're the one with the agenda of sour grapes....just like you had 10 years ago when long before BPv2 and any Dale Murray card you cried repeatedly how I would successfully employ cheap starters with a solid 3 man bullpen and get (boo hoo, sniffle sniffle) unfair results.

I understand the point that SOM ATG8 players don't want a journeyman reliever having the best card in the set. This is kind of why I do not like playing with all those pre war cards. (Does anyone really think Hugh Duffy would hit .440 in the MLB of today?).

However, if you can not get Dale Murray there are other relievers who are comparable,...no? What do you guys think of Dick Radatz, Mike Marshall, Willie Hernadez, and some of the other super relievers? If you are Nev (or whoever) and you miss on Murray who do you target next?

The point of my post was to show that in any cap Dale Murray is worth about 4 million more than his card.

If true why when I posted this...."I do find it peculiar that of all the very unrealistic results we get, from BP HRs, (should be halved) to Barry Bonds hitting 118 HRs, driving in 282 RBI, scoring 274 runs in a season...to 500+ hrs by a team...and ***any*** other R4 that's decent *including 10+M Walter Johnson right down to 1.39 Al Mcbean that a Super RP type has been done forever (even before the Murray card) ....The ONLY card that constantly gets singled out is Murray....and not singled out as the poster boy for all that's unrealistic...or even all that's unrealistic with the bullpen logic..just singled out as in get him out! And if he goes all will be fine and dandy...just can't for the life of me understand most in this community."

Your first and immediate response was this...."Says the guy who worked with strat to change the relieve strategy to be able to utilize Dale Murray in 7 different bullpen roles so he always goes in and then "discovers" Dale Murray and drafts him in his first 15 leagues Dale Murray is available in."


Does that attack questioning my integrity on BPv2 sound like you were just trying to explain why "You" think Murray is worth 10m at any cap?

.

I was not questioning your integrity on BPv2, I was stating I think you were lying when you claimed you didn't understand most in the community and the fixation on Dale Murray. Because I believe you know Murray used 300 innings is worth the same as a 10 million pitching card and no other reliever offers this option and you more than anyone knows how the bullpen logic works and what can be done with it, and the values that can be imparted on various pitching staffs. If Sandy Koufax was suddenly repriced at 5.99 million do you believe he wouldn't be the single most popular starting pitcher? I thought you were lying when you said you did not understand this in the way some were viewing the Dale Murray impact. I believe you understood it immediately, to claim you don't understand know does not seem true.

I did not like the outcome of BPv2, because the extreme innings are easy to accomplish and it lessens decision making in building bullpens, and has made top value starting pitching less valuable, but I am not claiming you did anything wrong there, you merely worked to get the bullpen to work as you though would be best, I don't really like the outcome and effect on bullpens as now most have no resemblance to real usage in modern or old school baseball but do not think you were trying at all to gain an advantage at the time you worked on the bullpen logic.

Radagast-

there are lots of other good RPs- Murray 'might' be the best value given the amount of innings he can go-

The other issue you are seeing goes back from 10 years or so where apparently Nev has fairly consistently beaten Charlie and Im not entirely certain Charlie enjoys that.

I have seen in games ranging from real sports, fantasy sports, just fantasy games etc. Where the people who win the most are often accused of doing something wrong.
In some cases they are-
i.e. the Patriots even though I love em'
but in most that is not the situation.

PS- Charlie, you did question his integrity earlier.

Says the guy who worked with strat to change the relieve strategy to be able to utilize Dale Murray in 7 different bullpen roles so he always goes in and then "discovers" Dale Murray and drafts him in his first 15 leagues Dale Murray is available in.

Im not a lawyer, so please help me understand this...

How does one read this if you are not questioning his integrity?

The bottom line is Murray should be a R2.

The bottom line is Murray should be a R2.

I dont disagree-

Thats a fault on that particular card then yeah?

If we are going to fix that one- think there are quite few others that need to be fixed also-
not that Im necessarily against that.

The bottom line is Murray should be a R2.

I dont disagree-

Thats a fault on that particular card then yeah?

If we are going to fix that one- think there are quite few others that need to be fixed also-
not that Im necessarily against that.

Correct, not just Murray, but the RPs in general have excessive RP fatigue ratings. 1927 Miljus started 6 games and had 2 shutouts. He started a lot of games in September and only went 5 innings in relief a couple times. he was actually a SP7/RP2
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... &year=1927