Hitting vs Pitching; where is the strat?

Greeting and salutations,

I have just started my first team recently. I am new to SOM, but have been playing baseball sims since Earl Weaver on DOS. I currently play OOTP, and have over 20 seasons played. I enjoy and agree with the outcomes more often then not in OOTP's simulation. That being said, the outcomes of games played in my SOM league seem not very "simlike" to me.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/league/424450 my team is the Geezers

After doing much research on these forums (which I should have done before purchasing teams) it would seem that ignoring pitching entirely, while stacking a lineup of all righty or lefty power hitters appropriate to your home park is the be all, end all strategy. If that is the case, then I must express my complete disappointment with this game. It's almost like watching an over the line game as opposed to a big league ballgame. What happened to "great pitching dominates great hitting"?

I am not trying to "whine" or "bitch" at all, just feel misled that a game that has the word strat in its title makes such a mockery of all time great pitchers. I enjoy pitching and always have. I like speed and defense as well, but it seems like a waste in this game.

I would greatly appreciate any cogent advice or thoughts on this. If making a team of lefty rakers in a ballpark that is 265' down the line in right will always be the best, then I will be happy to go back to my OOTP league.

I have learned that if you want your pitchers to do well, avoid $100M leagues. $80M max and $60 is probably best

Ballpark Effects and the fact that SOM creates the cards to recreate a specific season are the two biggest reasons for what you've noticed.

I would prefer that ballpark effect HRs be cut in half. There would still be a difference in Petco and Polo, but not as big a disparity.

Bob Gibson's 1968 card was created to DOMINATE 1968 National League hitters, but in our game, he's not facing 1968 hitters, he's facing a lineup of All-Time Hall of Famers. The Strat cards are created to closely recreate a specific season. In ATG we throw them all in a pot, sprinkle in BP effects, and out comes something a little different than one may expect at first glance.

Ballpark Effects and the fact that SOM creates the cards to recreate a specific season are the two biggest reasons for what you've noticed.

I would prefer that ballpark effect HRs be cut in half. There would still be a difference in Petco and Polo, but not as big a disparity.

Bob Gibson's 1968 card was created to DOMINATE 1968 National League hitters, but in our game, he's not facing 1968 hitters, he's facing a lineup of All-Time Hall of Famers. The Strat cards are created to closely recreate a specific season. In ATG we throw them all in a pot, sprinkle in BP effects, and out comes something a little different than one may expect at first glance.

I understand your point about specific seasons and agree. Maybe playing in the ATG deck was a mistake on my part. I really wanted to play with dead ball era players so I picked the pre war deck.

I also agree that the ballpark effect HRs seem too great to teaken seriuosly. Seems like Home Run derby to me when when you stack a lineup of cards that have the proper flyball outcomes for the park. I'm sure there are many managers that love seeing players blast multi HR games over and over. I was hoping for a more true to reality outcome, perhaps foolishly.

Here's my current team in a 24 team/ $60 million, all pitching, defense, and speed.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1383747

I like the smaller caps leagues

Here's my current team in a 24 team/ $60 million, all pitching, defense, and speed.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1383747

I like the smaller caps leagues

That is a great looking team Roland. So maybe I just joined the wrong kind of league in that case as a few have told me to go for the lower payroll league. I joined this league as it was the only Pre war league forming at the time and it still took quite awhile to fill. Next team I will shoot for a $60m league. I had no idea the money could skew outcomes so much in the favor of offense.

Just curious. Looking over your offensive team which hitters do you think are way overperforming what they should?
Your own lineup consists of eight real life .300 hitters and five with SLG over .500.

If you want pitching to dominate you have to stay at lower caps so people cannot afford lineups full of .300 hitters or stick with the 200x games where there is not as much talent to go around.

Just curious. Looking over your offensive team which hitters do you think are way overperforming what they should?
Your own lineup consists of eight real life .300 hitters and five with SLG over .500.

If you want pitching to dominate you have to stay at lower caps so people cannot afford lineups full of .300 hitters or stick with the 200x games where there is not as much talent to go around.

In regards to .300+ hitters, I would expect them to have a pretty bad day when they take on a hall of famer like Chief Bender but it just isn't happening. Great pitching seems to have very little effect against power hitters tailored to a park.

I also noticed that there are many multi home run games and that a few teams have really elevated hr totals due to there extreme park factor. Pitching a true ace against these lineups seems to have no suppressing effect on their hr tendencies or if it does its very little. I guess the main thing I am discovering is that parks seem to affect HRs at much greater rate then I expected, and that player price isn't a very good indicator of how they will perform in these extreme parks that most managers choose. I mean a team of all leftys seems prima facie absurd but is totally viable and in fact preferred if you get the park to compliment. I guess I expected more from "the most realistic baseball simulator around" which is the pitch that brought me to SOM's site.

I have just started my first team recently. I am new to SOM, but have been playing baseball sims since Earl Weaver on DOS. I currently play OOTP, and have over 20 seasons played. I enjoy and agree with the outcomes more often then not in OOTP's simulation. That being said, the outcomes of games played in my SOM league seem not very "simlike" to me.

I haven't played OOTP, so I can't really comment on it. However, it sounds like it's goal is to optimize accuracy of simulated outcomes over all. That is definitely not the purpose of SOM online. Yes, it aims to reproduce reasonable results; it doesn't want Brian Bogusevic to lead the league in homers or Kershaw to finish last in ERA. However, it privileges flexibility in team-building and team building strategies over rigidly accurate player-simulation or team results. So, if such rigid accuracy is important to you, SOM on-line probably isn't for you.

After doing much research on these forums (which I should have done before purchasing teams) it would seem that ignoring pitching entirely, while stacking a lineup of all righty or lefty power hitters appropriate to your home park is the be all, end all strategy. If that is the case, then I must express my complete disappointment with this game. It's almost like watching an over the line game as opposed to a big league ballgame. What happened to "great pitching dominates great hitting"?

I can't speak for ATG, others have already effectively done so, but this is definitely not the case in 20xx SOM. In 20xx, the best pitcher cards--Kershaw, Fernandez, Scherzer, Harvey, Lee, and Bumgarner--are almost always taken and usually do quite well. Harvey is currently 17-2 for one of my teams, and he's done well for me before. Also, there are many different ballpark strategies to use in SOM: Lefty parks, righty parks, pitcher's parks, High-homer/low single parks, and high-homer/high single parks. Yes, they do not entirely reflect MLB team-building. But MLB teams--such as the Red Sox, Rangers, and Padres--do tailor their teams around their park's dimension. And, again, SOM's primary purpose isn't stringently accurate simulation.

I would greatly appreciate any cogent advice or thoughts on this. If making a team of lefty rakers in a ballpark that is 265' down the line in right will always be the best, then I will be happy to go back to my OOTP league.

As I said in my two above paragraphs, making a team of lefty rakers can be an effective strategy, but it certainly isn't "always the best." It seems like you're looking for something out of SOM that just isn't there, despite your misconceptions about it. If that is truly the case, you should probably go back to OOTP. However, if you ease your "reality" standards a bit, you will see that SOM offers a very fun game with substantial, if not extreme, simulation accuracy.

I have just started my first team recently. I am new to SOM, but have been playing baseball sims since Earl Weaver on DOS. I currently play OOTP, and have over 20 seasons played. I enjoy and agree with the outcomes more often then not in OOTP's simulation. That being said, the outcomes of games played in my SOM league seem not very "simlike" to me.

I haven't played OOTP, so I can't really comment on it. However, it sounds like it's goal is to optimize accuracy of simulated outcomes over all. That is definitely not the purpose of SOM online. Yes, it aims to reproduce reasonable results; it doesn't want Brian Bogusevic to lead the league in homers or Kershaw to finish last in ERA. However, it privileges flexibility in team-building and team building strategies over rigidly accurate player-simulation or team results. So, if such rigid accuracy is important to you, SOM on-line probably isn't for you.

After doing much research on these forums (which I should have done before purchasing teams) it would seem that ignoring pitching entirely, while stacking a lineup of all righty or lefty power hitters appropriate to your home park is the be all, end all strategy. If that is the case, then I must express my complete disappointment with this game. It's almost like watching an over the line game as opposed to a big league ballgame. What happened to "great pitching dominates great hitting"?

I can't speak for ATG, others have already effectively done so, but this is definitely not the case in 20xx SOM. In 20xx, the best pitcher cards--Kershaw, Fernandez, Scherzer, Harvey, Lee, and Bumgarner--are almost always taken and usually do quite well. Harvey is currently 17-2 for one of my teams, and he's done well for me before. Also, there are many different ballpark strategies to use in SOM: Lefty parks, righty parks, pitcher's parks, High-homer/low single parks, and high-homer/high single parks. Yes, they do not entirely reflect MLB team-building. But MLB teams--such as the Red Sox, Rangers, and Padres--do tailor their teams around their park's dimension. And, again, SOM's primary purpose isn't stringently accurate simulation.

I would greatly appreciate any cogent advice or thoughts on this. If making a team of lefty rakers in a ballpark that is 265' down the line in right will always be the best, then I will be happy to go back to my OOTP league.

As I said in my two above paragraphs, making a team of lefty rakers can be an effective strategy, but it certainly isn't "always the best." It seems like you're looking for something out of SOM that just isn't there, despite your misconceptions about it. If that is truly the case, you should probably go back to OOTP. However, if you ease your "reality" standards a bit, you will see that SOM offers a very fun game with substantial, if not extreme, simulation accuracy.

Thanks much for your input on offense and the sim aspect of this game. As a lifelong Padre fan I know all about extreme parks and building a roster to your park. I believe that I just got into the wrong kind of league. I played a trial game for the current deck and got murdered so when I purchased teams I decided to check out my interest in dead ball era players and joined a league that had too high salaries. I am going to try a 20xx or a mystery for my next team, $80mil or less. I must say I am happy with the positive feedback, instead of typical "stfu newb!"