Greatest Catchers/Greatest NFL Quarterbacks

if someone invented a WAR for qb's, that would be telling

The NFL statisticians would probably say that's what they tried to do with the Passing Rating statistic. Do you have a particular problem with the formula? If so, I would value and like to hear your critique of it.

Griese falls short because they were a run 1st team
Forgot about guys like Bartkowski and Ken Anderson (great SOM QBs for me)
Plunkett got killed while with the Patriots, the booed him out of town for Steve Grogan (Favre before Favre)
Then there was Tony Eason who could be sacked by a ghost Then came Bledsoe who was the best QB in Patriots history took them to the Super Bowl he was tough could take a hit played in pain. I wanted coach fired for not going back to Drew and sticking with this Brady kid who does that? I might have been wrong on that!

I toss in a mention for Bobby Layne, for in the 1950s there were few who compared in both stats and in leading his team to championships and title games, despite being a prodigious drinker during the season.

Makes no sense that you can get a "perfect passer rating" without completing all of your passes. Same rating if you had one fewer incompletion and/or one more completion.

Need to distinguish between a screen pass that Barry Sanders magically turns into a 50 yard touchdown and that perfect pass to the corner of the end zone for a 50 yard TD.

Hail Mary INT at the end of the half counts the same as the foolish interception into triple coverage that loses the game in the last two minutes when in field goal range in a 20-19 game.

Better to take a sack than to sail the ball out of bounds? For your team......no. For your QB rating......yes.

It is better comparing QB's in the same season against one another but problematic in comparing different seasons with all the rule changes regarding how defensive players can guard receivers.

Another good topic here.

Best QB
1. Peyton Manning

Best "Catcher"
1. Anybody Peyton throws to!

Best QB
1. Peyton Manning

Best "Catcher"
1. Anybody Peyton throws to!

QB

Kenny "The Snake" Stabler

One of my favorite stories is watching a game and one of the announcers said "man that guy looks old for his age" and the other one says "yea but I wish I had lived just one of those lines on his face"

Catchers

Howard Cosell

Caught a Ali left.

I miss Howard. Watching a Monday night game and the Jets are just sucking and Howard is really giving it to them on air. They come back and win the game and Howard says "I didn't give them much of a chance of coming back tonight" and Dandy Don says "Howard you gave them no chance" That was the best Monday Night trio of all time bar none. Gruden makes me puke and most of these guys fall all over the players kissing their ashes. Howard told it like it was. My Dad hated him and every year he would get an old TV set and they would draw to see who got to throw a brick at it as soon as Howard was shown.

if someone invented a WAR for qb's, that would be telling

The NFL statisticians would probably say that's what they tried to do with the Passing Rating statistic. Do you have a particular problem with the formula? If so, I would value and like to hear your critique of it.

I think it provides a value to QB performance, that can be used to compare to any other QB within the same year. In other words, it's very valuable to see who were the highest rated passers in any given year. BUT, given the changes in the game, a passer rating of 140, for instance, would be easier to obtain in today's game, than it was in the 70's or 80's.

Whereas I think WAR (Wins Above Replacement), provides a means to compare Mike Trout to Babe Ruth, for example, by comparing how they performed relative to their peers. So a WAR of 20 today, is the same as a WAR of 20 from the 1930's, even though the individual's underlying stats may look vastly different. I know WAR is not perfect either, and I believe position-dependant, but I think it's a closer metric to compare players of different eras.

Cosell told me John Lennon died yes that was the best trio, Gruden is unlistenable

if someone invented a WAR for qb's, that would be telling

The NFL statisticians would probably say that's what they tried to do with the Passing Rating statistic. Do you have a particular problem with the formula? If so, I would value and like to hear your critique of it.

I think it provides a value to QB performance, that can be used to compare to any other QB within the same year. In other words, it's very valuable to see who were the highest rated passers in any given year. BUT, given the changes in the game, a passer rating of 140, for instance, would be easier to obtain in today's game, than it was in the 70's or 80's.

Whereas I think WAR (Wins Above Replacement), provides a means to compare Mike Trout to Babe Ruth, for example, by comparing how they performed relative to their peers. So a WAR of 20 today, is the same as a WAR of 20 from the 1930's, even though the individual's underlying stats may look vastly different. I know WAR is not perfect either, and I believe position-dependant, but I think it's a closer metric to compare players of different eras.

Thanks, Keyzick. I see the difference now. The pure numbers of the Passing Ratings alone are not sufficient to compare quarterbacks of different eras. I am skeptical, though, if such an accurate passing WAR is possible. The quarterback position is definitely one of the most statistically measurable; can we use any numbers to compare Forrest Gregg to Anthony Munoz? However, as Mr. Baseball World effectively pointed out, there are many passing variables difficult to represent with statistical formula. Should the formula privilege those who air it out by favoring yardage at the reception, or should it privilege West Coast types who make short passes extended by efficient running receivers like Jerry Rice or Vernon Davis? These, and other such variables, must be addressed and adequately "represented" in the "WAR" formula.

I'm pretty sure you, and some of the others on the thread, know more about rule changes (and their effects) than I. It would be interesting if some of you could come actually up with some ideas for an actual passing WAR. I, of course, would take full credit for fomenting the discussion, but I would share the spotlight...