Greatest Right Fielders/Favorite Songs of the '70s

I would rank Gwynn ahead of Dawson for sure. And even Reggie jackson. I'd take Gwynn's defense over Jackson and of course Gwynn didn't strike out (wasted at-bats) nearly as much as Reggie did.

EDIT: I think I'd also put Gwynn above Winfield...and believe me, that one hurts. Winfield was one of my sports heroes growing up. He was a gazelle and had the rocket arm. But I think consistency is underrated in baseball. And strikeouts are probably not as criticized as they ought to be.

I think most of Dawson's best years came as a CF, which is the position I'd rank him at if it were up to me. Gwynn over Winfield and just behind Ichiro.

On Born To Run, all great songs but my dime goes to Thunder Road, the imagery is just so real you can almost taste it

That may be, Steve, I'll have to check that out. He definitely played Center when Valentine was in Right for the Expo's. Dawson just always had that silent, badass RF persona, as opposed to the charismatic, swashbuckling one of so many Cf'ers; that might have swayed my thinking.

I do think it's cool that we have seen the varying standards we use to evaluate Rfers. Fred did a great job articulating his above. We also saw this in the Greatest SSs poll/thread where some highly valued defense over all, while others valued the player's overall game. We may all read and utilize the same statistics to evaluate players, but we clearly have different value systems when doing so.

And the imagery in "Thunder Road" is excellent. Who could forget a girl/vision dancing across a porch to Roy Orbison's solemn heartbreaker "Only the Lonely."?

Dawson played CF for the first 7 of his 21 seasons. I consider him a RF with better stats as well...

Gwynn's lifetime OPS would put him in the top five of that list, plus his numerous Gold Gloves and longevity -- 20 seasons, wasn't hanging on like many of his peers, hit .324 that last season -- realistically earns him the spot.

tws

OPS is definitely a legitimate standard for evaluating and comparing players. As I mentioned above, there are a few of them. As to Gwynn's Gold Gloves, though, considering his unremarkable range and arm, I would be skeptical that he won those on defensive prowess alone. Voters then still errantly rewarded offensive achievement and reputation. I would still rank him at Nine; I erred ranking Walker ahead of him. However, I have no problem with Gwynn at Five.

on gwynn:


1. most athletes decline their last ten years..gwynn hit .350

2. 107 career abs vs maddux..he hit .400+ ( and i think they said he never struck out once vs GM?)

OPS is definitely a legitimate standard for evaluating and comparing players. As I mentioned above, there are a few of them. As to Gwynn's Gold Gloves, though, considering his unremarkable range and arm, I would be skeptical that he won those on defensive prowess alone. Voters then still errantly rewarded offensive achievement and reputation. I would still rank him at Nine; I erred ranking Walker ahead of him. However, I have no problem with Gwynn at Five.

I don't know about that. Gwynn worked himself into being a very good rightfielder. He didn't start out being an excellent defensive RFer but he worked hard to develop himself into an excellent fielder. And he wasn't a bad athlete at all - he played point guard at San Diego State - so his talent and work ethic was a great combination.

Tony Gwynn was a very good right fielder. However, he was just a very good one, not a great one. During the years he won his gold gloves, he won them over defensively superior right fielders such as Larry Walker, Tom Brunansky, and the rifle-armed defensive whiz Raul Mondesi. He was not a better right fielder than those three, particularly Walker and Mondesi. As I noted--and others did about Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves on another thread--voters notoriously factored in offensive achievement when deciding GG winners. So, Gwynn's offense likely did factor into his GGs. They didn't stop doing so until complex and composite defensive statistics were recently made available to the voters.

I'm not knocking Gwynn here, he was a solid right fielder and an excellent athlete. However, most right fielders are and were good athletes, and most--like Larry Walker who was a hockey standout--excelled at other sports. But that doesn't guarantee their Gold Gloves were completely legit.

Some of my faves.....more later:

Comfortably Numb- Pink Floyd
Behind Blue Eyes- The Who
Man in Black- Johnny Cash
Piano Man - Billy Joel
I Will Survive- Gloria Gaynor

Some are less about the music and more about personal meaning/the message.