Greatest Right Fielders/Favorite Songs of the '70s

I'm not knocking Gwynn here, he was a solid right fielder and an excellent athlete. However, most right fielders are and were good athletes, and most--like Larry Walker who was a hockey standout--excelled at other sports. But that doesn't guarantee their Gold Gloves were completely legit.

Gwynn went to SDSU on a basketball scholorship and played for 4 years on the team. He still holds some team records even though he played 35 years ago. Twice all WAC and the only player in WAC history to be all WAC in 2 different sports. He was drafted by the Clippers after his senior season.

I very much agree that offense counts in gold glove voting even though it shouldn't. But I don't think you can knock Gwynn for his lack of ability in a 2nd sport.

Um, I didn't "knock" Gwynn for his "lack of ability in a 2nd sport" at all. The quote you gave of mine actually shows that. Fred posted this, using Gwynn's basketball days as evidence of his likely fielding prowess:

I don't know about that. Gwynn worked himself into being a very good rightfielder. He didn't start out being an excellent defensive RFer but he worked hard to develop himself into an excellent fielder. And he wasn't a bad athlete at all - he played point guard at San Diego State - so his talent and work ethic was a great combination.

I posted this in direct response:

I'm not knocking Gwynn here, he was a solid right fielder and an excellent athlete. However most right fielders are and were good athletes, and most--like Larry Walker who was a hockey standout--excelled at other sports. But that doesn't guarantee their Gold Gloves were completely legit.

So, I was saying that Gwynn wasn't the only right fielder to excel in another sport. So, his excelling at one didn't guarantee the legitimacy of his (or anyone's) Gold Gloves. I certainly didn't say he didn't excel in a 2nd sport.

Now that that's clarified, at least we agree that offense counted in Gold Gloves in the past, although the voters are getting better these days. The no-hit Darwin Barney did win recently.

l.strether already pretty much conceded Gwynn is the 5th greatest RF since WWII, which really seems to be the only sticking point between the community and his list, so I think we can all nod and move on. Getting a 9 of 10 agreement with this opinionated crowd is admirable prognostication.

Now to replace "Backstreets" with "Jungleland"; point out Van Morrison's "Caravan" is both transcendent and exhilarating while "Into the Mystic" is "only" transcendent; and drop the excellent and influential cult band Big Star for "We Are Family" by Sister Sledge, since there is no disco or woman on this list, the infectiously funky track helped drive the 1979 Pirates comeback World Series win vs. the Baltimore Orioles, and it's a GREAT F#CKING SONG.

tws

l.strether already pretty much conceded Gwynn is the 5th greatest RF since WWII, which really seems to be the only sticking point between the community and his list, so I think we can all nod and move on. Getting a 9 of 10 agreement with this opinionated crowd is admirable prognostication.

I conceded nothing of the sort, tws, although I do appreciate your admiration for my prognostication... I actually said this about Gwynn in relation to the bottom 4, placing him at 9 over Walker:

Gwynn is definitely one of the best hitters since Williams, but he wasn't the all-around player/right fielder the others were. I could see ranking him higher than Walker, but not Dawson, Suzuki, or Jackson; they were just more impactful in their all-around games than the pop-less Gwynn.

I also neglected to mention Winfield, who at 5, ranks ahead of all of them. Now to your music points:

Now to replace "Backstreets" with "Jungleland"; point out Van Morrison's "Caravan" is both transcendent and exhilarating while "Into the Mystic" is "only" transcendent; and drop the excellent and influential cult band Big Star for "We Are Family" by Sister Sledge, since there is no disco or woman on this list, the infectiously funky track helped drive the 1979 Pirates comeback World Series win vs. the Baltimore Orioles, and it's a GREAT F#CKING SONG.

I have no quibble with "Jungleland," we'll chalk off our disagreement to personal preferences of two Springsteen fans. I'll say the same about "Caravan," another excellent song. Although, while I would say it's more exuberant than "Into the Mystic," I would argue that "ITM" is exhilarating in in its own quieter way. Again, though, both are excellent songs, and I'm just pleased there's another Van Morrison fan on these boards.

I can't share your love for "We are Family," however, nor can I with most of Disco. But I will, to lighten the testosterone of my list, add one of my other favorite songs of the 70's. With Carly Simon singing delightfully scornfully and Mick Jagger singing backup, who didn't love this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6UAYGxiRwU

But Mr. l.strether, have you not conceded: "I have no problem with Gwynn at Five." And the tribe has spoken in concurrence. Truly, Tony Gwynn is the 5th Greatest RF of the Post-WWII Era. Sadly -- in fact literally tragically -- it is Roberto Clemente removed from the pantheon, due only to his shortened career.

Moreover, upon further reflection, any list of greatest songs from the 1970s that does not include Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band's profound, timeless, reflective "Night Moves," and Rod Stewart's incendiary paean to life, lust and love "Every Picture Tells a Story," is incomplete.

tws

P..S. And while I'm at it: If you're looking for balls-out, top of the world 70s swagger from Van Halen, they never-ever topped the slice-and-dice guitar and spitting contemptuous defiance of "Mean Street."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2R2KXNQR1M

But Mr. l.strether, have you not conceded: "I have no problem with Gwynn at Five." And the tribe has spoken in concurrence. Truly, Tony Gwynn is the 5th Greatest RF of the Post-WWII Era. Sadly -- in fact literally tragically -- it is Roberto Clemente removed from the pantheon, due only to his shortened career.

No, Mr. Seibert. That sentence was not a concession to Gwynn belonging at 5, it was an acknowledgment that someone else ranking him there would be ok with me. Here was my full statement on the matter:

I would still rank him at Nine; I erred ranking Walker ahead of him. However, I have no problem with Gwynn at Five.

So, you can clearly see that I still ranked him at 9, but had no problem with others ranking him at 5. Whatever the "tribe" has said--and I'm not sure it's been unanimous--is also fine; I just disagree with them. I still would take a right fielder with greater power and arm like Winfield, Dawson, and Jackson or the speedier better defender, Suzuki.

Moreover, upon further reflection, any list of greatest songs from the 1970s that does not include Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band's profound, timeless, reflective "Night Moves," and Rod Stewart's incendiary paean to life, lust and love "Every Picture Tells a Story," is incomplete.

As to this, my list was simply my favorites, so I had no need to include any songs on it but my favorites. As to the greatest ten songs of the 70's, I wouldn't place anything by Bob Seger on it, but I won't begrudge you your preference. I also would definitely place "Maggie May" over "EPTaS;' it's just Stewart's greatest song and performance ever. Other great 70's songs I missed were:

Bridge over Troubled Water by Simon and Garfunkel
Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd
Because the Night by Patti Smith
Go Your Own Way by Fleetwood Mac
London Calling by The Clash.

P.s. Thanks for the Van Halen, that truly was an excellent tune.

Strictly a non commercial song, but I wore this album and this song out in my college years. 11 minutes of pure listening entertainent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLqzluhWl0