Greatest Center Fielders/Greatest Singers

Actually the song you just posted, for me makes her case. While the song itself may be sappy and schmaltz, her range on it is INCREDIBLE. I have yet to hear anyone do justice to that song in trying to cover it. Any other version I've heard comes off a a piss poor imitation at best. Now I'm not necessarily saying she's a better female singer than the five you mentioned,( I'd take her over Nicks though) she certainly deserves to be in the discussion of a top 10 for female singers.

We completely agree that she has great range, although not as great as Franklin, Turner, Carey, Lennox, Beyonce and others. It's clear, though, you value range itself more than I do, while I more value singing style and interpretation. As I said before, that's fine. All music critics--including us amateurs on the forum--privilege different legitimate standards. So, where you revel in her range, I cringe at her Bolton-esque belting and over-sentimental interpretation. However, to give her credit, that awful song was over-sentimental from the get-go. But her range is impressive, she had a long career, and I have no problem with her in the discussion for top ten female singers.

As for Bono, he's in a category for me, like Geddy Lee or Dave Mathews, or Steve Perry or Stevie Nicks, great doing their stuff and able to cover other acts to a certain extent, and their respective bands' sounds would not be the same without their vocals, but could they move into another genre and be as good?

I see what you're saying here, Niners, although I would put Perry, Nicks, and Bono in a much higher plane than Lee or Matthews as singers. The only problem with this standard is it could disqualify many excellent singers from the Top Ten. How many genres could Sinatra, Jones, Orbison, Franklin, Lennon, Cline and other sing in? Not many. Although, I would certainly agree with you that singers who do sing successfully in different genres--like Morrison, Bowie, and Cash--add to their greatness as singers.

As Risden said, Bono is undoubtedly the best rock front man of the last 20 or so years, taking a mantle worn by, in no particular order, Plant, Jagger, Daltry, Mercury, but a top 10 singer? I just think he's not quite there, especially if you include male and female vocalist on the same list. He works at at though, there's no doubt about that and I respect the work he has put in to be better since the band started.

Well said. All four of those excellent Rock lead singers could preclude Bono from a Top Ten list, and I like and respect them all. As to Jagger, I always fluctuate on him. He clearly doesn't have the chops of the others, but he is such a stylish singer who so clearly understood how to interpret his own lyrics. I would be curious to hear what Jagger fans think. Anyway, Niners, thanks for your well-thought-out responses.

Thanks for the thanks

However, to give her credit, that awful song was over-sentimental from the get-go.

Had to make a comment here though, this made me grin, you are right. I should look and see, because I don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised to see this song was written and/or produced by Jim Steinman, Meatloaf's frequent collaborator. It's certainly right in his wheelhouse, and he has written for other artists, most notably Bonnie Tyler on Total Eclipse of the Heart.

Meatloaf is another guy I don't think gets enough credit as a vocalist because of the stuff he sings, but I think he is a great singer, probably not a top 10 but maybe in a 15-20 range.

I see what you're saying here, Niners, although I would put Perry, Nicks, and Bono in a much higher plane than Lee or Matthews as singers. The only problem with this standard is it could disqualify many excellent singers from the Top Ten. How many genres could Sinatra, Jones, Orbison, Franklin, Lennon, Cline and other sing in? Not many. Although, I would certainly agree with you that singers who do sing successfully in different genres--like Morrison, Bowie, and Cash--add to their greatness as singers.

I agree, that Lee and Mathews are not the vocalist that the others I listed are, just pointing out that their voices are so unique it's very difficult to imagine anyone else performing their songs. And while Sinatra, Jones etc, may not have stretched to far from their comfort zone, you can certainly see(hear? imagine?) how their voices would play in other genres. Sinatra would kill as a jazz vocalist or a Broadway style artist.
Orbison is another of those unique voices, but I can easily hear him doing hardcore Country and Western, or the Blues, which I suppose his music was heavily influenced by anyway and therefore isn't a great stretch. So I guess it's as much projecting styles for artists as much as what they've done.

One of the things American Idol, for all it's flaws has done IMHO, is illustrate how singers are fits in one genre/style of music but not fit for others and it's the truly great talents that can cross genre's despite their chosen niche.
Simon Cowell for all his pompousness, was usually pretty accurate when he'd tell contestants that they may be good singers, for say Broadway or Gospel or as a Vegas lounge act, but don't have the voice for a pop singer.

I wouldn't put him number one but Ty Cobb is in my top ten all-time CF's. Him and Joe DiMaggio for sure.

Singers? I don't know. Freddy Mercury sounds right (ninersphan listed Mercury). The dude could sing.

Will strictly go female in my list of greatest:

1. Stevie Nicks (no brainer)
2. Sara Mclachlan
3. Sara Evans
4. Leann Rimes
5. Amy Lee

I wouldn't put him number one but Ty Cobb is in my top ten all-time CF's. Him and Joe DiMaggio for sure.

Singers? I don't know. Freddy Mercury sounds right (ninersphan listed Mercury). The dude could sing.

He left Cobb off the list as he was ranking only CF's post WW2, as he explained in his first post, but not in the title of the thread

Will strictly go female in my list of greatest:

1. Stevie Nicks (no brainer)
2. Sara Mclachlan
3. Sara Evans
4. Leann Rimes
5. Amy Lee

Ooooooh, interesting choices there. I've seen Miss Rimes in a bit of an unusual setting actually. She perform with the Syracuse Symphony Orchestra doing all sorts of different songs, and I have to agree she has a KILLER set of pipes, and could certainly move between genre's if she so desired. Nice choice there Jerry.

I wouldn't put him number one but Ty Cobb is in my top ten all-time CF's. Him and Joe DiMaggio for sure.

Singers? I don't know. Freddy Mercury sounds right (ninersphan listed Mercury). The dude could sing.

He left Cobb off the list as he was ranking only CF's post WW2, as he explained in his first post, but not in the title of the thread

Will strictly go female in my list of greatest:

1. Stevie Nicks (no brainer)
2. Sara Mclachlan
3. Sara Evans
4. Leann Rimes
5. Amy Lee

Ooooooh, interesting choices there. I've seen Miss Rimes in a bit of an unusual setting actually. She perform with the Syracuse Symphony Orchestra doing all sorts of different songs, and I have to agree she has a KILLER set of pipes, and could certainly move between genre's if she so desired. Nice choice there Jerry.

thanks niners. sorry about that, guys. Maybe we could also do a CF list pre WWII and only female singers.

I have to say, seeing Rimes in concert convinced me what an extremely talented singer she is. She did a Joplin cover and closing my eyes, wouldn't have been able to tell the difference. As for the argument, if there is one, concerning the likes of Cline, Franklin, etc., I chose not to mention them only for the reason is that I do not listen to their music.

I know jazz isn't being discussed here, but I have to mention Sarah Vaughan, who I consider the best singer of all time.

And while Sinatra, Jones etc, may not have stretched to far from their comfort zone, you can certainly see(hear? imagine?) how their voices would play in other genres. Sinatra would kill as a jazz vocalist or a Broadway style artist.
Orbison is another of those unique voices, but I can easily hear him doing hardcore Country and Western, or the Blues, which I suppose his music was heavily influenced by anyway and therefore isn't a great stretch. So I guess it's as much projecting styles for artists as much as what they've done.

One of the things American Idol, for all it's flaws has done IMHO, is illustrate how singers are fits in one genre/style of music but not fit for others and it's the truly great talents that can cross genre's despite their chosen niche.

As I said earlier, versatility is definitely a legitimate standard for evaluating singers. However, I definitely wouldn't make it the only standard for such judgment, or even the main standard. I would definitely take the singer who is outstanding in one genre over the one who does only well in many. Many truly great talents do not (or rarely) "cross genres."

Sinatra could have shined on any stage, although I don't see him singing "Oklahoma." However, he never would have been a true jazz singer like Bennett or Vaughan; he never would have rendered himself to improvisation like they did. Also Orbison was a rockabilly artist, but he was not a country singer-type like Waylon Jennings or Cash, who did make that jump. And I really don't see his singing style (or lyrics) translating to the blues. Sinatra and Orbison are still two of the best ever, despite their genre "limitations."

As to the women's list, I'll give both my ten favorite performance and my top ten greatest to make up for my previous "lapse.":

Ten Greatest Female Singers
1. Billie Holliday (if we're including jazz singers)
2. Patsy Cline
3. Sarah Vaughan (kudos Steve)
4. Aretha Franklin
5. Etta James
6. Nina Simone
7. Joni Mitchell
8. Stevie Nicks
9. Annie Lennox
10. Janis Joplin

Ten Favorite Female Performances
1. I Fall to Pieces by Patsy Cline. Country's best female singer achingly conveys obsessive heartbreak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuZTk1hdpMs

2. Superstar by Karen Carpenter. Her haunting rendition of Russell's classic shows what a voice and vocalist we lost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJmmaIGiGBg

3. Because the Night by Patti Smith. She stole this dramatic nugget from Springsteen, made it her brooding own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2PzvX2Ipvg

4. Back on The Chain Gang by Chrissie Hynde. First female modern rocker displays gritty, lovely voice on this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK3uf5V0pDA

5. This Girl's in Love with You by Dusty Springfield. Her blue-eyed soul voice coollly owns Bacharach's classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UT1GvZvctY

6.Only You by Alison Moyet. Moyet's voice inspired (and topped) Adeles, and it shines on this 80's classic by Yazoo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIiyT67Sjbg

7. Heart of Glass by Debbie Harry (Blondie). Delivers post-punk condemnation of love with seductive swagger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGU_4-5RaxU

8, River by Joni Mitchell. Joni's voice shines on her most beautiful song of love and regret.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAK9Pj5-QXY

9. Gold Dust Woman by Stevie Nicks. Stevie's best interpretation work with delicious scorn for her fallen subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPEGzEttx0w

10. Back to Black by Amy Winehouse. Bennett called her the greatest jazz singer he ever heard. You here it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJAfLE39ZZ8

As I said earlier, versatility is definitely a legitimate standard for evaluating singers. However, I definitely wouldn't make it the [b]only standard for such judgment, or even the main standard. [/b] I would definitely take the singer who is outstanding in one genre over the one who does only well in many. Many truly great talents do not (or rarely) "cross genres."

Never said I did, it's A factor for me not THE factor. or THE ONLY factor, sorry if i mislead you.