Hot Stove

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teamnasty

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Re: Hot Stove

PostMon Dec 15, 2014 1:00 pm

Chase Headley's 4/52 with the Yanks is a relative bargain contract, particularly considering that Pablo and Hanley got about twice that. I also think Melky's 3/42 with the Chisox is reasonable given their attempt to actually win in 2015, although I remain quite skeptical that they will pull it off. I think more like than not they'll still be sitting at home in October. But the contract isn't a bank-breaker and Melky represents a large upgrade over the in-house alternatives.
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Ninersphan

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Re: Hot Stove

PostMon Dec 15, 2014 4:49 pm

l.strether wrote:
l.strether wrote:Regardless of what lineup they go with, Epstein has done an excellent job rebuilding the franchise and putting them in the position to compete for many years to come. Having Lester as their bonafide ace and Joe Maddon at the helm will certainly help.

Forget Baseball America, I called that two days ago... :D

As to Niners' interesting notion, I think all of our views on MLB have been somewhat shaped by SOM. I know I, myself, sometimes catch myself telling my wife, friends, or kids that Crawford is a 1 shortstop or that Morse is a 4 outfielder. On the good side, it has taught us a lot about team building, the value of OBP, and shaping team building to stadiums. On the bad side, it makes us look at MLB through rules and perspectives not applying to it.

I'm not critiquing Keyzick here, but Online SOM does undervalue left-handed pitchability pitchers like Miley often. To major league clubs, a left-handed innings eater like Miley is a valuable and desirable commodity. To Online SOM, he's a non-dominating pitcher worth less than 2Mil. So, using SOM to inform our views on MLB is fine; we just need to be wary of letting them shape them.


It's not the online game entirely for me anyway. I first started playing Strat in the mid 90's in a FTF C&D league made up of ten teams drafting from 24 of the 30 MLB teams, and let me tell you, I saw first hand LHSP's get absolutely pulverized. I guess the format would be pretty similar to the online given the number of teams and the cards in play, the rosters were closer to all-star type than real MLB so maybe that's why my experiences were like this. Bottom line was, unless you had Randy Johnson or the occasional Chuck Finley or David Wells you did NOT start LH pitchers there were simply to many lefty killers in that era.
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teamnasty

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 2:59 pm

2y/$8M is a bargain for Morse. (Later found out it's 2/$16M plus performance incentives). That moves it from bargain to just another deal.
Last edited by teamnasty on Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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teamnasty

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 3:34 pm

I don't understand the Ray's logic in the Joyce for Jepsen trade. Nice little move for the Angels.
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l.strether

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 3:43 pm

teamnasty wrote:I don't understand the Ray's logic in the Joyce for Jepsen trade. Nice little move for the Angels.

I like the trade for both teams. With Kevin Kiermaier asserting his place in right field, and Jennings, Zobrist, and/or Myers getting the rest of the outfield playing time, there wasn't going to be room for Joyce, who can't hit lefties. In Jepsen, they get a hard-throwing, set-up-caliber guy who had a 2.63 ERA, 1.05 Whip, and a whopping 10.38 K/9IP. Those guys aren't easy to get.

Joyce should be a good fit with the Angels, though, as he's much better defensively than Calhoun and provides further protection for the fragile Hamilton.
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teamnasty

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 7:50 pm

The Rays could have used Joyce at DH vs RHP and to back up both corner OF positions. He's a better player even than Josh Hamilton and has value, even if it's not star value. Zobrist plays 2b for them and wouldn't be competing for Joyce's AB's.

Jepsen did have a nice season last year but 30 year old righty relievers with career ERA's around 4 who have never thrown more than 65 IP in a season, typically less, do in fact grow on trees. Most fungible commodity in baseball. Jepsen is under control for one more additional season than Joyce but that demonstrates that the Angels and Rays both acknowledge Joyce to be the better player.
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blue turtle

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 8:07 pm

Ninersphan wrote:Just musing here, but I wonder sometimes, when we Strat heads try and do evaluations of real baseball if we aren't stuck with our Strat evaluations. By that I mean, in the case of Miley, he's a middle of the rotation LH Sp in the MLB which means in our format he likely is at best a #5 starter in a good year and I wonder if those types of differences stick either consciously or subconsciously.


It affects my assessments, but I am increasingly interested in only 24-team leagues, which tends to mitigate the creaming of the player pool that goes on in a 12 team/$80M league. The other part I have to keep in mind, besides the differing talent pool, is in the snapshot that is Strat, a 40-year old player and a 22-year old player who have identical stats and cards are equally valuable in a non-keeper league.
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teamnasty

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 8:16 pm

To the extent that much of Miley's value is tied to his simply being able to take the ball and reliably throw 200 IP every year at avg/slightly above avg ERA performances, he then loses much of that advantage in SOM online, which has very unrealistic usage rules and allows a starter who throws 50 high quality real life innings to become a 220 IP beast online. Players like Miley tend to be underrated in the "real world" as well because he doesn't throw particularly hard. But guys who can reliably take the ball every 5th day and put up league avg ERA's are actually quite valuable, particularly to contending teams with good offenses. Low risk SP becomes important to them, whereas lousy offensive teams need to gamble more on high risk/high reward starting pitchers with better stuff/lousier health profiles than Miley. Interesting phenomena.
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l.strether

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Re: Hot Stove

PostTue Dec 16, 2014 9:19 pm

The Rays could have used Joyce at DH vs RHP and to back up both corner OF positions. He's a better player even than Josh Hamilton and has value, even if it's not star value. Zobrist plays 2b for them and wouldn't be competing for Joyce's AB's.

All players have some value, that goes without saying. However, Joyce is 30, can't hit lefties at all, and showed a decline last year to only 9 hrs in 418 ABs and a poor line of .254/.349/.383 (ugh). So he's not better than a healthy Josh Hamilton, and the Rays could do a lot better at DH. Also, the Rays want to give Forsythe some ABs at 2b, so Zobrist will get some time in the Of, making Joyce even more expendable.
Jepsen did have a nice season last year but 30 year old righty relievers with career ERA's around 4 who have never thrown more than 65 IP in a season, typically less, do in fact grow on trees. Most fungible commodity in baseball.

As I said before, In Jepsen, they get a hard-throwing (96 mph), set-up-caliber guy who had a 2.63 ERA, 1.05 Whip, and a whopping 10.38 K/9IP in 74 games. That type of quality reliever does not grow on trees. If you think they do, then go make a list of all the MLB righty relievers of such quality and performance level. You won't find many, and those you do will all be valuable. Also, even if such righty relievers are fungible--and you haven't proven they are--it doesn't mean the good ones aren't rare and valuable. Ones like Jepsen are.
Jepsen is under control for one more additional season than Joyce but that demonstrates that the Angels and Rays both acknowledge Joyce to be the better player.

That conclusion doesn't naturally follow at all. You're taking a leap of sylllogistic logic not supported by your facts. Sometimes the need of a type of player trumps the need for more years of another. It doesn't prove one player is better than the other, or that either team thinks so. Also, the fact the Rays get two years of Jepsen has value in itself. Not only did they get a player of equal or better value whom they needed more. They got one more year of him. Pretty good deal for the Rays.
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teamnasty

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Re: Hot Stove

PostWed Dec 17, 2014 1:14 am

Jepsen's been worth about 4 wins over replacement for his entire career. Joyce 3 times that. And lol at "healthy Josh Hamilton". Doesn't exist. Relievers are a dime a dozen, with notoriously unreliable career curves. As Jepsen's own story tells.
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