Finders Keepers Keeper League Chat

Yes/Yes

Saw this posted in another league and I like it, I've been thinking of something like this for a while now. I've never totally understood the rationale for the rule and think it can be simplified. Since I've taken over this league, I don't think its ever been enforced anyways.

PROPOSED RULE CHANGE.
Current Rule
1) You cannot trade draft choices that you do not own. This means that if you trade a 9th round draft pick, you must release as many players as necessary to ensure that you will have a 9th round pick. For example, you have a 40 man roster, and you have acquired an extra 2nd, 3rd, and 6th round draft pick during the year. You have also traded away a 7th and 9th round draft pick. This means you must release at least 12 players prior to the draft to insure that you will have a 9th round pick. If you plan to continue drafting beyond Round 9 you will have to release an additional player for each subsequent round. You cannot drop more than 15 players.

PROPOSED NEW RULE.
Proposed Rule Change
1. You must drop enough players to get your roster to a size between 25 and 30.
2. You cannot trade draft picks past the 10th round.
3. Active roster may never be less that 25 players.

Basically like any league your draft pick are your draft picks no matter what. If you drop 10 players but have 10 picks In the first 3 rounds and you choose to trade your 8th round pick, it's yours to trade without having to drop extra players. If you don't use or trade the picks they are just forfeited. Maybe I've never fully understood the rationale for the rule but it seems to punish someone who acquires extra picks.


2nd rule (addition)
Another rule I would like to see implemented is not a rule change but just an addition. In order to protect the league I would like to add a rule that you cannot trade picks more than 1 year in advance. For example this year you can obviously trade 2015 picks and trading 2016 picks is acceptable as well. What I wouldn't want is guys trading 2017 or 2018 picks. How I see this protecting the league is if an owner decided to trade away a ton of future picks and then quit the league, good luck finding a replacement owner if he has no prospect picks for the next 4 years.



Please vote
1.Rosco-YES/YES
2.Ironwill- YES/YES
3.Peter- YES/YES
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10
11.
12.

Saw this posted in another league and I like it, I've been thinking of something like this for a while now. I've never totally understood the rationale for the rule and think it can be simplified. Since I've taken over this league, I don't think its ever been enforced anyways.

The logic was this,( and I know 'cause I know the guy that wrote the rule, sandlotshrink, it was written and discussed for USKL and has become adopted by most of the keep leagues here on the site.)

You are using the assumption that every team has draft picks in 1-10 (or 15) rounds regardless of cuts, when in fact you only get picks was you only get draft picks for cuts. So even if you have a roster of less than 40 due to unbalanced trade trade you still need to make enough cuts to account for the draft picks you've traded.

The real problem was this, and this is why it was enacted, we had a manger that made his ten cuts, but was done drafting for his team in round 7 but then during 8 of the draft traded his 10th round slot to another manager even though he already had a full roster. That's the situation the rule was written to prevent. So long as there is a caveat that a slot can't be traded once a roster is full I can accept the change.

That makes sense to me, I don't have a problem with it. It also has the added benefit of forcing guys to make cuts thus adding to the player pool for the draft, which, quite frankly I've found lacking in some leagues, and so I've made adjustments in my later leagues to the supplemental drafts and prospect drafts to also help the Spring draft player pool.

Saw this posted in another league and I like it, I've been thinking of something like this for a while now. I've never totally understood the rationale for the rule and think it can be simplified. Since I've taken over this league, I don't think its ever been enforced anyways.

PROPOSED RULE CHANGE.
Current Rule
1) You cannot trade draft choices that you do not own. This means that if you trade a 9th round draft pick, you must release as many players as necessary to ensure that you will have a 9th round pick. For example, you have a 40 man roster, and you have acquired an extra 2nd, 3rd, and 6th round draft pick during the year. You have also traded away a 7th and 9th round draft pick. This means you must release at least 12 players prior to the draft to insure that you will have a 9th round pick. If you plan to continue drafting beyond Round 9 you will have to release an additional player for each subsequent round. You cannot drop more than 15 players.

PROPOSED NEW RULE.
Proposed Rule Change
1. You must drop enough players to get your roster to a size between 25 and 30.
2. You cannot trade draft picks past the 10th round.
3. Active roster may never be less that 25 players.

Basically like any league your draft pick are your draft picks no matter what. If you drop 10 players but have 10 picks In the first 3 rounds and you choose to trade your 8th round pick, it's yours to trade without having to drop extra players. If you don't use or trade the picks they are just forfeited. Maybe I've never fully understood the rationale for the rule but it seems to punish someone who acquires extra picks.


2nd rule (addition)
Another rule I would like to see implemented is not a rule change but just an addition. In order to protect the league I would like to add a rule that you cannot trade picks more than 1 year in advance. For example this year you can obviously trade 2015 picks and trading 2016 picks is acceptable as well. What I wouldn't want is guys trading 2017 or 2018 picks. How I see this protecting the league is if an owner decided to trade away a ton of future picks and then quit the league, good luck finding a replacement owner if he has no prospect picks for the next 4 years.



Please vote
1.Rosco-YES/YES
2.Ironwill- YES/YES
3.Peter- YES/YES
4.Ninersphan FIRM NO (see above explanation)/YES
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10
11.
12.

Niners wrote
"The real problem was this, and this is why it was enacted, we had a manger that made his ten cuts, but was done drafting for his team in round 7 but then during 8 of the draft traded his 10th round slot to another manager even though he already had a full roster. That's the situation the rule was written to prevent. So long as there is a caveat that a slot can't be traded once a roster is full I can accept the change.

That makes sense to me, I don't have a problem with it. It also has the added benefit of forcing guys to make cuts thus adding to the player pool for the draft, which, quite frankly I've found lacking in some leagues, and so I've made adjustments in my later leagues to the supplemental drafts and prospect drafts to also help the Spring draft player pool."

This is something that can easily be added (I would think). I really just want to make thinks simple and not punish guys for adding early picks.

Now maybe I'm thinking wrong about this, but let's say a guy acquired 8 1st round FA picks plus had his own that equals 9 picks. He then traded his 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 all before the draft but holds onto his 10th. Really he still only needs to make 10 cuts? However if he had traded his 10th he would need to make 18.

I don't know just never really liked/understood the rationale for the rule totally.

I'm tired and think I'm going to bed so I don't want to think about all the possibilities and about rewriting this right now, but basically if we just alter it a bit to say you can't trade picks after you are done drafting does that satisfy guys not being able to trade the picks they have left, or is there something else we are then missing???

Niners wrote
"The real problem was this, and this is why it was enacted, we had a manger that made his ten cuts, but was done drafting for his team in round 7 but then during 8 of the draft traded his 10th round slot to another manager even though he already had a full roster. That's the situation the rule was written to prevent. So long as there is a caveat that a slot can't be traded once a roster is full I can accept the change.

That makes sense to me, I don't have a problem with it. It also has the added benefit of forcing guys to make cuts thus adding to the player pool for the draft, which, quite frankly I've found lacking in some leagues, and so I've made adjustments in my later leagues to the supplemental drafts and prospect drafts to also help the Spring draft player pool."

This is something that can easily be added (I would think). I really just want to make thinks simple and not punish guys for adding early picks.

Now maybe I'm thinking wrong about this, but let's say a guy acquired 8 1st round FA picks plus had his own that equals 9 picks. He then traded his 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 all before the draft but holds onto his 10th. Really he still only needs to make 10 cuts? However if he had traded his 10th he would need to make 18.

I don't know just never really liked/understood the rationale for the rule totally.

I'm tired and think I'm going to bed so I don't want to think about all the possibilities and about rewriting this right now, but basically if we just alter it a bit to say you can't trade picks after you are done drafting does that satisfy guys not being able to trade the picks they have left, or is there something else we are then missing???

At least now you know where the cuts=picks rationale comes from, If you don't do something and just assume everyone gets 10 picks , this is what can happen.

As i said so long as you make it so you can't trade a pick in a round after your draft would fill your roster, I'm okay with it, but remember even doing that means as the commissioner, you REALLY have to stay on top of the draft as it's unfolds.

technically a guy could trade the picks then before he fills his roster then. For example roster at 39 last pick is in sixth round and right before you draft trade your 7, 8, ,9 ,10 for a 6th the following year.

Fuck I don't know, done thinking about it for the night but still don't like the idea that just because you traded a 9th for a scrub player the previous year then went to a rebuild and acquired a bunch of early picks that you have to drop far more players than you want to just to ensure that you have a 9th round pick.

Ok fell asleep thinking about this(not healthy).
I think this would solve the problem. Once the draft starts any extra picks you have are locked. For example, you have 10 picks in the first 6 rounds and have a roster of 30 to start the draft. You have not traded your 7-10th rnd picks so still technically own them however they are not available to trade (they are locked).
The picks can however become "unlocked" in the following example situation.

Once the FA draft has started. You have two 6th rnd FA picks. The draft is moving along and there happens to be an additional player you like in the 5th round and don't think he'll fall to you in the 6th. You trade the 2 6th rnd picks you have for someone's 5th rounder. You now need a 10th pick, in this situation your 7th round pick would become "unlocked" and available to use or trade.

Once the FA draft has started. You have two 6th rnd FA picks. The draft is moving along and there happens to be an additional player you like in the 5th round and don't think he'll fall to you in the 6th. You trade the 2 6th rnd picks you have for someone's 5th rounder. You now need a 10th pick, in this situation your 7th round pick would become "unlocked" and available to use or trade.

Yes, this is standard practice in the leagues where I'm commish. If you do not have 40 players by the time your turn comes up in a round, then you get to pick -- whether you were eligible in a previous round or not.

Once the FA draft has started. You have two 6th rnd FA picks. The draft is moving along and there happens to be an additional player you like in the 5th round and don't think he'll fall to you in the 6th. You trade the 2 6th rnd picks you have for someone's 5th rounder. You now need a 10th pick, in this situation your 7th round pick would become "unlocked" and available to use or trade.

Yes, this is standard practice in the leagues where I'm commish. If you do not have 40 players by the time your turn comes up in a round, then you get to pick -- whether you were eligible in a previous round or not.

And in the leagues I run, once the draft starts, your picks are your picks, instead of unlocking a 7th rounder, which in my mind becomes sort of a bonus, ( especially because then what's to stop you from trading the new pick you didn't really have, prior to actually having it.) you get a pick at the end of the draft, a supplemental pick which can not be traded, to fill your roster. Two different ways of doing it, I'm not opposed to either, just want to avoid the situation I discussed with the trading of slots after roster is filled.