Anyone else looking for the new cards?? LOOK inside page 12

First of all, Niners, thanks for your magisterial explanation of the Keeper Leagues. You should probably e-mail a version of it to SOM so they could show possible customers what different options await them. Although it's still too repetitive--I still prefer different managers and different teams--for my taste, you have definitely shown there's a lot to enjoy in keeper leagues, and I much better see the attraction for keeper league managers.

I also understand why it's attractive to players like you who played SOM in leagues when you were younger. I, myself, only played as a pre-teen with my brother. And when I realized high school girls like surfers and skateboarders better than SOM players, I gave up the game for good to enhance those skills. So, my SOM experience never involved organized leagues.

As to Unleashed, I won't unleash our old debates on the matter. However, how does the existence of an Unleashed set, which all keeper leagues can use, prolong the release of a prospect card? Including the cards in one set isn't going to make a difference there. Also, I'm sure you and other keeper league managers know that most of the community--which includes all 5000+ members--don't play keeper leagues. So, not having an Unleashed set just to make keeper league managers would be decidedly wrong.

Anyway, thanks again for the excellent explanation and the pictures you have posted.

"gotta stand and face it, life is so complicated", Ray Davies circa 1971

me thinks the U-set players are callups from the minors that do really well in September so it serves as a heads up as to whom might blossom into a major league star the following year. Fantasy Football keeper leagues are the same. i drafted Andrew Luck as a rookie to stash him and he's been great but not as well as the guy who got Aaron Rodgers when he was Farve's backup

First of all, Niners, thanks for your magisterial explanation of the Keeper Leagues. You should probably e-mail a version of it to SOM so they could show possible customers what different options await them. Although it's still too repetitive--I still prefer different managers and different teams--for my taste, you have definitely shown there's a lot to enjoy in keeper leagues, and I much better see the attraction for keeper league managers.

I also understand why it's attractive to players like you who played SOM in leagues when you were younger. I, myself, only played as a pre-teen with my brother. And when I realized high school girls like surfers and skateboarders better than SOM players, I gave up the game for good. So, my SOM experience never involved organized leagues.

As to Unleashed, I won't unleash our old debates on the matter. However, how does the existence of an Unleashed set, which all keeper leagues can use, prolong the release of a prospect card? Including the cards in one set isn't going to make a difference there. Also, I'm sure you and other keeper league managers know that most of the community--which includes all 5000+ members--don't play keeper leagues. So, not having an Unleashed set just to make keeper league managers would be decidedly wrong.

Anyway, thanks again for the excellent explanation and the pictures you have posted.

Couple of things just to clarify,

1. I didn't stat playing Strat until after i graduated college, 1993-94 to be exact, is was 26, 27 years old not a teenager.

2. You say you don't want to rehash the unleashed argument, but then you go ahead and post a countering opinion anyway

And because you asked a question I'll answer it ( I think, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking "prolong the release of the prospect card????):

To explain it from the keeper side, if there was no unleashed set and there was no cards left out, there wouldn't be anything to argue about.

Because there is an unleashed set, and because some keeper leagues have elected not to use it, some guys get to use that great first card and others don't which to me doesn't seem fair. Heck in some cases, the SAME manager might get to use that card in one league and not another. Again from the keeper perspective, it feels like I'm not being allowed to use a guy I had the foresight to draft 2 years ago because somebody controlling the game feels like a certain player shouldn't be on a leaderboard for year end stats.

And you're welcome X2

2. You say you don't want to rehash the unleashed argument, but then you go ahead and post a countering opinion anyway

I said I didn't want to rehash our old debates, and I didn't. However, since you brought Unleashed up, I was going to address what you wrote.

And because you asked a question I'll answer it ( I think, I'm not exactly sure what you are asking "prolong the release of the prospect card????):

I was referring to what you said here:

Keepers are also a big reason why I prefer not to have a separate unleashed set, and would prefer if all players were included. If you drafted that top prospect two years ago and he comes up and tears the cover off the ball for a hot September, the last thing you want is to have to wait a THIRD year to use the guy. But that's a separate topic.

See, you did talk about the release of a prospect card being prolonged. So, I was curious why you thought that would be.

To explain it from the keeper side, if there was no unleashed set and there was no cards left out, there wouldn't be anything to argue about.

There would be a lot of non-keeper players--the majority of players--unhappy having to play with Unleashed-level cards. Nobody on the keeper side should care as long as all the cards are released in the Unleashed set. The two sets let the Keeper leaguers play with everybody, while the majority of players can avoid having to play with almost every player with 5-80 ABS. Since the Unleashed set is available, it would be selfish and pointless for the Keeper leaguers to insist on only one set for everybody.

Because there is an unleashed set, and because some keeper leagues have elected not to use it, some guys get to use that great first card and others don't which to me doesn't seem fair. Heck in some cases, the SAME manager might get to use that card in one league and not another. Again from the keeper perspective, it feels like I'm not being allowed to use a guy I had the foresight to draft 2 years ago because somebody controlling the game feels like a certain player shouldn't be on a leaderboard for year end stats

Again this is a non-problem. If you want to use all the players, make your league Unleashed. Since everybody in a league is all playing with the same set, it doesn't matter what set other leagues are playing. Since I imagine everyone in your league is playing with the same set, I suggest you stop worrying about what other people in other leagues are doing. As I said before, the majority of players don't want to play with those cards assigned to Unleashed, at least not regularly. So keeper leaguers can't expect them to do so, just because of their concern with other leagues.

I should 't do this, at this point I know how it's going to end but if the people running the online game never excluded any cards would you ask them to take players out just because you don't want to see them I. A leader board at the end of a season?

Because I'm not sure they started doing it until the third year of the online
Game. At least that was the first time somebody notice it, when they left out the infamous Baerga card.

I will contend forever that if they had simply left all the cards in the online game this debate would never happen.

I don't get it I never will the realism Argument doesn't work in a game the unrealistically allows starting pitchers to pitch after only 3 days rest when it doesn't happen in real life, relief pitchers to pitch well over 150 innings many times doubling or even tripling their real innings, a game that won't allow a second catcher to get injured when the first one is already injured a game that only has 12 teams there by insuring that teams more closely resemble all star teams FA ing off against each other more than actual rosters. With all of those unrealistic elements I fail to see why some of you get your panties in a bunch when Joe Blow puts up 5 more home runs or drives in 10 more runs batted in. NO ONE has ever had a compelling or logical argument why that is a problem and none of the rest is. The only real reason ever given is
We just don't want it.

Absolutely MIND BOGGLING.

but I've ranted long enough to much alchol while celebrating Valentine's Day I suspect.

I'm sure I'll regret having been dragged into this again in the morning.

I should 't do this, at this point I know how it's going to end but if the people running the online game never excluded any cards would you ask them to take players out just because you don't want to see them I. A leader board at the end of a season?

The people running the online game already do exclude cards and put other questionable ones in the Unleashed Set. So, I don't have to ask them to take players out. So, to avoid conflict, I'll avoid speculating on a non-existent hypothetical. I will say, though, they've worked out the problem beautifully.

Also, the only one who is getting his "panties in a bunch" is you. Almost every non keepers league player--and many keeper league players--is fine with the Unleashed decision. You have the option to play Unleashed, yet you can't stop crying about other players getting to play with players you can't, even though you can. So, I suggest you get over it, play your leagues Unleashed, and stop your many Unleashed rants like the one above. Definitely avoid the alcohol, as I could barely follow that frenetic rant.

And I and others have given many good reasons--not just "we don't want it"--why we don't want cards of players with 10 ABs in our leagues. You just haven't been able to counter them. Yes, SOM can't completely simulate MLB. That doesn't mean it shouldn't do every thing it can to make it as realistic as possible. Your not seeing that is truly illogical and mind boggling.

Finally, nobody dragged you into anything. You were the first one to bring up the "problem" with the Unleashed set, and I responded. So stop playing the dramatic victim...

Bill (Ninersphan) runs the most incredible keeper leagues. His hard work and dedication as commissioner in numerous leagues is second to none. It's a thankless job. He spends hours, if not days for each league insuring rosters are up to date, player availability for the upcoming year, and a host of other things. And its double the work for each league Roscoedog is in

Never make an argument that can be held against you. The only thing or person I want held against me is Frank, and as close as I can get that sexy hard man. I would yell until the baseball came home for that centerfield!

Its not a namba love thing it is just Frank being a GODess type of thingy.

Bill (Ninersphan) runs the most incredible keeper leagues. His hard work and dedication as commissioner in numerous leagues is second to none. It's a thankless job. He spends hours, if not days for each league insuring rosters are up to date, player availability for the upcoming year, and a host of other things. And its double the work for each league Roscoedog is in

I agree whole heartedly...my only complaint is that I'm only in one of his keeper leagues...always looking to expand!