Top Ten Shortstops Right Now/Ten Greatest War Movies

Actually his stats haven't been much inflated by Coors at all. He's done outstanding outside of Coors. So, you're wrong again.

Tulo pretty good away from Coors, but he would be one of the best ever if he played all his games in Coors.
Home 481 1802 346 582 111 14 99 349 .323 .397 .565 .962
Away 480 1772 268 486 94 10 77 255 .274 .349 .469 .818

I have to say, I started a SS/War Movies thread. I had no idea it would turn into a Tulo thread. Sure, Tulo did better in Coors; all hitters do. However, most hitters in hitters parks do better in their home parks than on the road. Also, just because Coors helped Tulo, it doesn't mean a substantial amount of his offense there wasn't "legitimate." Most of his offensive success there would have also been successful in other parks, as well. So people can't entirely discredit his Coors stats; he earned most of them.

So, the Coors issue isn't nearly as much of a factor in evaluating Tulo as is his fragility. If he stays healthy from here on out, most (including some on this thread) would consider him one of the greatest ever. If he doesn't, and his fragility continues, people will mostly be wondering what might have been.

You did say Tulo was one of the best ever, which I initially scoffed at, but the stat line you posted for him was pretty impressive. When combined with his "D", your point regarding his all-time standing didn't seem so ridiculous anymore, which is what initiated my research. However, I have to disagree concerning his home-away splits as they are pretty drastic. He's basically a HOF'er offensively in Coors and a good player on the road. You said he's very good on the road as well in defending your position somewhere in an earlier post, but the evidence shows there to be a pretty drastic home-road split and his offensive stats definitely appear inflated at home. Then you say he earned those stats. Of course he earned them, but they are inflated relative to many other hitters because of where he accomplished them. I'm not saying he's not a very good player when healthy, but it's obvious he has benefited quite a bit by hitting in Coors. Get him over to Fenway where he will be able to post great numbers and no one will say they are inflated by the ballpark.

You did say Tulo was one of the best ever

I said Tulo was arguably the best ever, and I made clear I meant he was arguably the best to play the position, not the one with the best career.

However, I have to disagree concerning his home-away splits as they are pretty drastic. He's basically a HOF'er offensively in Coors and a good player on the road. You said he's very good on the road as well in defending your position somewhere in an earlier post, but the evidence shows there to be a pretty drastic home-road split and his offensive stats definitely appear inflated at home. Then you say he earned those stats. Of course he earned them, but they are inflated relative to many other hitters because of where he accomplished them.

They are not "drastic." He has very good stats on the road. Also, you misunderstand what I meant by "earning" stats, since you say his stats are drastically inflated but still say he "earned" them. By "earned" them, I didn't just mean he accomplished them. I meant most of those produced stats would have been produced in more "regular" parks as well. Therefore his statistics there are not predominantly inflated.

I'm not saying he's not a very good player when healthy, but it's obvious he has benefited quite a bit by hitting in Coors. Get him over to Fenway where he will be able to post great numbers and no one will say they are inflated by the ballpark.

Firstly, many hitters have benefited from Fenway and other parks. So, Red Sox players aren't sterling examples of players with no ballpark benefits. Secondly, your final statement about Tulo is disingenuous, if not necessarily intentionally. You say he's a very good player when healthy, then you imply much of his being very good comes from playing in Coors. That's faint praise. You clearly don't think much of Tulo's accomplishments, and that's your prerogative. As I've noted, he's accomplished much, despite his fragility and over-exaggerated Coors assistance, and is arguably the most talented shortstop to have played the position.

I meant most of those produced stats would have been produced in more "regular" parks as well. Therefore his statistics there are not predominantly inflated.

What is the basis for this claim?

1/ The Burmese Harp by Kon Ichikawa (1956)

2/ Grave of the Fireflies by Isao Takahata (1988)

3/ Floating Clouds by Mikio Naruse (1955)

4/ Napoleon by Abel Gance (1927)

5/ All Quiet on the Western Front by Lewis Milestone (1930)

6/ The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplin (1940)

7/ Muriel by Alain Resnais (1963)

8/ MASH by Robert Altman (1970)

9/ Sergeant York by Howard Hawks (1941)

10/ The Searchers by John Ford (1956)

Interesting list. You clearly have a better knowledge of Japanese films than I; I'm pretty much limited to Kurosawa and Ozu. So, it would be cool if you could tell the forum a bit about the first three. I also like how you included the excellent The Great Dictator and The Searchers on the list. Although they aren't literally war movies, The Great Dictator is an excellent (and daring) film about WWII's beginnings, and The Searchers is arguably the greatest post-Civil War film ever made.

Thanks for sharing.

Actually his stats haven't been much inflated by Coors at all. He's done outstanding outside of Coors. So, you're wrong again.

Tulo pretty good away from Coors, but he would be one of the best ever if he played all his games in Coors.
Home 481 1802 346 582 111 14 99 349 .323 .397 .565 .962
Away 480 1772 268 486 94 10 77 255 .274 .349 .469 .818

strether is clearly WRONG if he is implying that the above two stat lines are not drastically different. However his realizing this and admitting it are two very different things.

I meant most of those produced stats would have been produced in more "regular" parks as well. Therefore his statistics there are not predominantly inflated.

What is the basis for this claim?

My basis for this fact is the physical reality that most of Tulowitzki's hits in Coors were not home runs or extra-base hits directly caused by the park or Denver's air. Most of them would have produced the same results in other parks. Therefore his statistics in Coors are not predominantly inflated.

It must be a statistical anomaly that Tulo's Home/Road stats are not virtually the same.