Top Ten Third Basemen Right Now/Greatest Westerns

Dementia: "Deterioration of intellectual faculties, such as memory, concentration, and judgment, resulting from an organic disease or a disorder of the brain. It is sometimes accompanied by emotional disturbance and personality changes."

That's very interesting, TN. Apparently you think my not agreeing with you and Twins on Carpenter makes me paranoid. Since your position on Carpenter isn't close to inherently right, that makes you demented (see above).

As to Narcissism, I haven't seen you admit you were wrong once. So, according to your own definition, you're the actual narcissist. Your comparing yourself and Twinsfan to "the world" further proves it. And if you think my not accepting your incorrect view of Matt Carpenter makes me a narcissist, you're even more demented than I thought..

If you want to prove otherwise, you need to show I'm absolutely wrong about Carpenter. We both know you can't; you couldn't prove I was wrong, period.

Can you seriously say with a straight face that if you had to win a one game right now, if your life was on the line hypothetically, you wouldn't rather have Matt Carpenter than Arenado or Machado? Carpenter gets on base like noboby's business, drives in runs, has a great 'feel' for the game and has proven himself over and over again in clutch situations.

Also I'd bump Beltre above Seager or Longoria...

Dementia: "Deterioration of intellectual faculties, such as memory, concentration, and judgment, resulting from an organic disease or a disorder of the brain. It is sometimes accompanied by emotional disturbance and personality changes."

That's very interesting, TN. Apparently you think my not agreeing with you and Twins on Carpenter makes me paranoid. Since your position on Carpenter isn't close to inherently right, that makes you demented (see above).

As to Narcissism, I haven't seen you admit you were wrong once. So, according to your own definition, you're the actual narcissist. Your comparing yourself and Twinsfan to "the world" further proves it. And if you think my not accepting your incorrect view of Matt Carpenter makes me a narcissist, you're even more demented than I thought..

If you want to prove otherwise, you need to show I'm absolutely wrong about Carpenter. We both know you can't; you couldn't prove I was wrong, period.

Yes I can. However, I can't believe you asked that question with a straight face. A player's greatness is measured by what he can do over a season, not one game. Dave Kingman had more potential to do damage in one game than most, but he was a terrible player.

As I pointed out earlier, the only thing Carpenter does better than Arenado and Machado is get on base. He hasn't shown his 2013 season was a norm for him. Arenado and Machado are far superior defensive third basemen than Carpenter, and both have better power.

As to Beltre, you don't give any support for his being better than Seager and Longoria. I understand, since he isn't. Both his power and defense are on the decline. So both Seager and Longoria are better defenders now with significantly more power. That makes them better 3bmen now.

More of strether not accepting any opinion different from his own. I have to agree with twinsfan on this one. OK here is my Beltre vs Longoria. Not even close really.

BA for Longoria the past 4 seasons: .244, .289, .269, .253
BA for Beltre the past 4 seasons: .296, .321, .315, .324

HR for Longoria the past 4 seasons: 31, 17, 32, 22
HR for Beltre the past 4 seasons: 32, 36, 30, 19

Both had the identical fielding % of .967 last year.

Well, if you want to be objective go to fangraphs and take a look at the metrics. Carpenter is better than Arenado or Machado, to the 'eyeball' test, certainly a more proven winner with the 'x' factor and his metrics are better. There are are 3 reasons for you right there, one of which is sabermetrics and therefore not prone to personal bias...

Same thing with Beltre over Longoria or Seager, if your eyes or biases are misleading you take a look at how their metrics compare. I realize that baseball can't be fully quantified or anything like that, there is much nuance involved, but I bet if you really thought about it and your life or someone you cared about's life was on the line you'd rather have Carpenter than Arenado or Machado. and you'd rather have Beltre than Longoria or Seager. They would give you better chances to win baseball games and are therefore better players. Nuff said.

Yes I can. However, I can't believe you asked that question with a straight face. A player's greatness is measured by what he can do over a season, not one game. Dave Kingman had more potential to do damage in one game than most, but he was a terrible player.

As I pointed out earlier, the only thing Carpenter does better than Arenado and Machado is get on base. He hasn't shown his 2013 season was a norm for him. Arenado and Machado are far superior defensive third basemen than Carpenter, and both have better power.

As to Beltre, you don't give any support for his being better than Seager and Longoria. I understand, since he isn't. Both his power and defense are on the decline. So both Seager and Longoria are better defenders now with significantly more power. That makes them better 3bmen now.

More of strether not accepting any opinion different from his own. I have to agree with twinsfan on this one. OK here is my Beltre vs Longoria. Not even close really.

BA for Longoria the past 4 seasons: .244, .289, .269, .253
BA for Beltre the past 4 seasons: .296, .321, .315, .324

HR for Longoria the past 4 seasons: 31, 17, 32, 22
HR for Beltre the past 4 seasons: 32, 36, 30, 19

Both had the identical fielding % of .967 last year.

More of Bombers trying to find conflict where there isn't any. I could say the same about you not accepting my opinion. This is a forum, Randy; we are allowed to disagree. I fully "accept" Twinsfan's opinion, I just don't agree with it. He directly addressed my opinion and I responded back with mine. If you have a problem with that and think I have to agree with someone else's opinion, that's simply ridiculous.

As to the stats you listed, they are entirely irrelevant. The poll is not about the best third basemen over the last four years; it is a poll of who is the best third baseman now. Beltre will be 36 on opening day, and his skills are on the decline. So, Longoria, whose skills are on the incline,--he's hitting his power peak--is now a better defensive third baseman and a greater offensive threat.

Well, if you want to be objective go to fangraphs and take a look at the metrics. Carpenter is better than Arenado or Machado, to the 'eyeball' test, certainly a more proven winner with the 'x' factor and his metrics are better. There are are 3 reasons for you right there, one of which is sabermetrics and therefore not prone to personal bias...

Same thing with Beltre over Longoria or Seager, if your eyes or biases are misleading you take a look at how their metrics compare. I realize that baseball can't be fully quantified or anything like that, there is much nuance involved, but I bet if you really thought about it and your life or someone you cared about's life was on the line you'd rather have Carpenter than Arenado or Machado. and you'd rather have Beltre than Longoria or Seager. They would give you better chances to win baseball games and are therefore better players. Nuff said.

First of all, "fangraphs" isn't the final arbiter of who is the better third baseman. Its metrics are just one set of statistics among many. Secondly you don't show how the fangraph metrics prove Carpenter is a better third baseman; you just say they do. Even my 8-yr-old daughter could do that. You have to provide the metrics supporting your case. Finally, I have no idea what you mean by the "eyeball" test; you have to clarify that one. And just because Carpenter played on a winning team doesn't mean he has any more of an "X factor" than Arenado or Machado, or is more of a "winner" than them. You'll have to do better than that.

Finally, are you really going to base your argument on the overdramatic and nebulous question, "Who would you want to have your life on the line."? That's a completely un-fact-based, subjective standard that determines nothing. You can't lecture me about "biases"--particularly when I have shown none--and metrics, then base your argument on such a baroque, non-baseball related question as that.

So, my arguments, which I have actually supported, still stand. Arenado and Machado would give you better chances over a season to win ball games than Carpenter, and Longoria and Seager would give you better chances to win than Beltre now. Nuff said...

Apparently strether is soley basing his Longoria over Beltre argument on the calendar as there is nothing else to back it up. Beltre was better than Longoria last year as well as the last several years. Yes Beltre is older than Longoria but so far Longo has not played better than Beltre.

Apparently bombers still can't accept my opinion; his hypocrisy abounds. I've never "soley" done anything; I have no idea what that means. I did however, unlike Bombers, base my argument on all 7 of Longoria's seasons, not just his last 4, and I well supported it on my previous posts. Apparently Bombers also doesn't understand the physical realities of players' declining bodies and other players' inclining power curves. 36 year-old players like Beltre will see considerable drops in their range and power production. 29 year old players like Longoria tend to see their power spike. Thus Longoria is the better defending, more powerful, and better 3b right now.

Anything done over 4 years ago hardly relates to who is the better player today. It is hard to believe that is what you are basing your opinion on. Both players saw their power drop by about 1/3 last year. However Longoria's BA has been dropping. He hasn't hit above .269 the past 4 years. Beltre just posted the 2nd highest BA of his career last year. I'm not sure where you are seeing his decline.

You may be saying that Longo would be the better choice for the next 4-5 years because of the difference in age. I can't argue with that. However the best right now? That can't be justified by the stats.