2014 set sleepers

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Ninersphan

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 1:55 pm

childsmwc wrote:Marc,

At a basic level, the conversion you did to "Steve's" runs created formula is exactly how the strat data is converted into salaries. The actual values used have been posted before in the ATG threads and are based on Robert Johnson's (I hope I remembered the name right) linear runs created theories.



Someone needs to tell them to adjust the formula for range rating, because I believe you overpay for defense.
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childsmwc

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 3:50 pm

There have been several posts within this thread that have touched on defense and I when I get a chance I was going to open a new discussion on that topic. One of the biggest discrepancies between models when valuing defense is how you factor in the incremental detriment from more PA's in the lineup. An error not only creates the Value of converting an out to a hit, but it also creates additional PA's until the out has been replaced. The other primary variable when comparing across range factors is what assumptions are used to value the DP differences.
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STEVE F

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 4:01 pm

I was trying to find my old work from when I did the "Statman Ratings Book". I can't seem to find it at the moment, but basically it was a slight variation of the linear weights method described in Thorn and Palmer's book "The Hidden Game of Baseball". An out was assigned a negative value. This also applied to the defense, as the better range got credit for the extra out on double plays turned.
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MARCPELLETIER

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 5:23 pm

Hey thanks bbrool, for the update. I think you might have referred to Paul Johnson, not Robert Johnson, the gifted blues guitarist.

As you probably know, Paul Johnson's Extrapolated Runs Created (as known as NERP) formula have been among the most accurate in the business to deal with individual assignments of value. Quoth Wikipedia "ERP was almost as accurate as RC at measuring team runs, it did not succumb to RC's infamous problems at the individual level, and its values stacked up well when compared to Pete Palmer's linear weights formula".

So, for people buying the SOM ratings, and who want to generate an easy way to generate an assigned value for each player, I would recommand Dean's paper based on the NERP formula.

But it's still an "empircally-driven" formula. To quote Wikipedia again: "However, like any linear formula, there is no guarantee that it will work outside of the context in which it was developed", which is basically the years 1955-1998.

In other words, the assigned run values for events (0.50 for singles, 1.44 for homeruns, etc) are good estimates for environments similar to baseball as played on average in the 1950-2000 era, but can be off the mark in extreme environments. In environments where pitchers dominate, for example, 0.50 for singles is too high---in such environments, 6 singles will not generate on average 3 runs. The singles will more probably be distributed across the innings. At the opposite, in Coors-type environment, 0.5 is not a value high enough for singles...in these environments, singles tend to agglomerate, and so runs come in bunch. Singles are likely to generate 0.55 or 0.60 runs.

That's one reason I believe that a rating system based on linear weights generated by a run expectancy matrix will produce more accurate results, because you can adapt your matrix to virtually any environment.

Yesterday, I posted the link for the run expectancy matrix based on 2014

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sorta ... id=1657937

You see that, when an average team started in 2014 a typical inning, no one on, no out, teams on average are expected to produce 0.4552 runs. A single happens, the expectancy is boosted to 0.8182 runs. The difference, 0.36 runs, is the contribution of this specific single, in this specific environment. With bases empty, two outs, the single is worth less: 0.11 runs, because the expectancy between the two situations has been only increased from 0.086 to 0.195. With bases loaded, two outs, the clutch single** has produced two runs, as we all know, but since the run expectancy has slightly lowered (we went from a situation with bases loaded to a situation with men on first and third), the net value of this clutch single, in this particular context, is 1.80 runs.

Once you do this for all 24 situations (it's fairly easily in Excel), you need to know at which frequency each situation happens (all available on the web), and you generate the overall value of singles (in 2013---I still need to upgrade the values for 2014---singles were worth 0.47 runs). But as my last example has illustrated, you are not forced to use the "baseball events". You can instead use the "strat events". You calculate the value of single* (0.37 runs), the value of single** (0.51) (on offensive cards, it's not possible to distinguish single* with single** because of the "increasing running options", but the latter option doesn't affect the result of defensive charts, which include si* and si** separately). You can calculate the real value of gbA (it's -0.33), instead of estimating the value of double-plays. With gbA, runners on second can advance to third (when the ball is hit towards the right infield). GbC/flyA are worth -0.20 runs, still negative, but not as much as strikeouts (-0.27). The value for PB/WP/BK can be differentiated from the value of T-rating (the latter never advance players from first base). Basically, it's a much more flexible system than NERP.

I made all these estimations based on the average 2013/2014 season, but you can select instead a matrix ajusted to Coors environment (again, I believe they are available on the web, although I didn't look for it). And you can even have the option to adapt a run expectancy environment for pitchers.

When I did compare the linear weights generated by this system with those generated in NERP, in typical environment, the correlation was over 0.95. But with extreme pitchers, the differences were observable at naked eyes. With Kershaw on the mound, the weights assigned to singles were down to 0.39 instead of 0.47 or 0.50 (depending on Palmer's linear weight or NERP---but I must add, the values of outs are also transformed, so the bottom-line difference is not as wide as it looks).

And last advantage, the results generated by these linear weights are truly "run estimations". So once you calculated the runs generated by an offensive player, adjust it to injury risk and defense, you have the potential to truly estimate the value of running or stealing. For example, if you simmed on the SOM-cd that runners 1-17 generate on average 12 runs, then you can simply add these 12 runs in the system, they are the same units as those obtained by the run expectancy matrix.

A few caveats, the extra PAs generated by players with better on-base are not taken into account, so an adjsutment is needed there. And one would still have to estimate accurately the real usage of pitchers, which is a heck of a job.
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childsmwc

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 5:34 pm

Marc,

To keep things simple I will stick with a linear model. That being said I do "check" my linear values against current stats to see if they still accurately estimate runs and Paul Johnson's formula still holds up nicely against 2014 data.
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MARCPELLETIER

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 7:26 pm

Bbrool,
The system I describe is entirely linear. The flexibility to change the weights for a specific environment is an additional value, but you're not forced to use it. You can simply plug in the league average, and use it for the entire set. As i said, when i do so, the correlation btw the linear weights and NERP is 0.95, so clearly neither system is off the mark. But in extreme settings, such as the one we encountered in ATG, NERP gets off by a wider margin from the true value In a way that linear weights based on expectancy matrix won't, in my opinion.

And like I said, the linear weight system I describe can estimate the value of gbC, si**, etc, and it can incorporate values generated by simming the game in a way NERP can't.
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Ninersphan

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 7:31 pm

Correlation, linear matrix, run expectancy matrix, I'm getting hives just like trig class ;-)
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l.strether

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostWed Mar 11, 2015 7:45 pm

Ninersphan wrote:Correlation, linear matrix, run expectancy matrix, I'm getting hives just like trig class ;-)

I said goodbye to math after I finished my Freshman Business Calculus class and haven't touched it since. As I said earlier in the thread, some managers take SOM much more seriously--and put in much more time--than I. Until this thread, though, I had no idea how much so.
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chasenally

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostThu Mar 12, 2015 2:43 am

l.strether wrote:
Ninersphan wrote:Correlation, linear matrix, run expectancy matrix, I'm getting hives just like trig class ;-)

I said goodbye to math after I finished my Freshman Business Calculus class and haven't touched it since. As I said earlier in the thread, some managers take SOM much more seriously--and put in much more time--than I. Until this thread, though, I had no idea how much so.


My wife just left me and my kid is hungry, he just PM'd me to let me know that. I lost my job because my boss wants me to show up at work during the Keeper league drafts screw him. I need a 2B and that is all that matters let alone those starting pitchers I need. Hold on a second.

That was my kid crawling towards me to tell me something. Thank God he passed out or I would not have posted this and found that SP that would have taken me to the promise land. It was a good night and I will now turn off the computer and hope I don't kick my kid in the head, trip over him and not find my way to bed. Need my sleep so I can find that 2B tomorrow before my turn to draft.
The msaegse is waht mttares msot!
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ROBERTLATORRE

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Re: 2014 set sleepers

PostThu Mar 12, 2015 8:53 am

chasenally wrote:My wife just left me and my kid is hungry, he just PM'd me to let me know that. I lost my job because my boss wants me to show up at work during the Keeper league drafts screw him. I need a 2B and that is all that matters let alone those starting pitchers I need. Hold on a second.

That was my kid crawling towards me to tell me something. Thank God he passed out or I would not have posted this and found that SP that would have taken me to the promise land. It was a good night and I will now turn off the computer and hope I don't kick my kid in the head, trip over him and not find my way to bed. Need my sleep so I can find that 2B tomorrow before my turn to draft.



Funnnny! My wife get's annoyed with me because I make her use the splits deck to decide if I am going to do the things on her to do list....

Take out the garbage: 1-6
Clean the garage: 1-2
Replace the burned out light bulb in the hallway: 1-8
Power wash the deck: 1-3 (weather factors: April-June 1-5, July-August 1-15, September 1-3)

The only thing that got a 1-19 was, well, never on her list, only mine ;-)
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