how about Uke? -- or, where are the bench player votes

a bad thing about the new card voting is that it's hard to come up with some rules that might allow a round for very cheap bench players

How about Bob Uecker 1965? Here's his slashes vs LHP (he hit righty): .267 .389 .362 .751 in 126 PA -- way better than the other side, so he'd be like 6L.

I'd like to hear some ideas about how to add interesting 20th to 25th roster guys in the next vote. Maybe it could be restricted to "less than" such and such, e.g. OPS or PA or whatever, and people could make arguments why the low-priced candidate would be a good addition due to some niche-filling quirk. For instance, I wouldn't mind having a back-up catcher with .389 OBP vs. LHP ... who was also the guy who said "Other guys had slumps where they'd go 0 for 10 or 20. I went 0 for June and July."

The problem with adding fringy players who might be 6L or have .389 OBP vs LH or whatever similar is if the card is good and cheap it will not be a 20th to 25th roster guy. It will be used as a starter and put up unrealistic numbers that player could never have put up in a full season. ATG has many of those now and they have been discussed many times and even many requests to have them removed. I personally would be very unlikely to vote for any card addition that only had 126 PAs.

Good example was how many used to put Milt May in a big HR park before the catcher position like many others became much deeper. I assume that is still done in 60 mil leagues.

There are probably a huge number of such cards that would be interesting to have if there were some sort of over usage in play so they would not make effective every day players.

I mentioned Uke 65 as an example of how cheaper players could be added. In 65 his whole line was 172 PA (that's plenty) at .228 .345 .317 .662 -- pretty bad, not a fluke, but an interesting possible platoon player who would NOT overperform, since how many AB would he get against LHP, and what would be the average ability of those ATG LHP?

My point is, the voting for new players is a bore because all it does is add a bunch of extra-great seasons (that largely duplicate OTHER extra-great cards already in the set). I'd like to see a bunch of sub-2m types in the next vote, BASED UPON adding niches, such as mediocre-fielding bad-throwing catchers who might be used in a platoon. I mentioned Uke just to have an example, hoping people would discuss how the next ATG poll might be more interesting in filling out bottom of the roster spots. No way would a .228 .345 .317 .662 with a +2 arm but a 6L or 9L balance be enormously in demand. And that's the point -- interesting enough in niches to provide a cheap experiment, mediocre enough that the card would be cheap in the boringly excessive world of ATG phenomenal cards.

WE NEED TO ADD ENTIRE TEAMS.

WE NEED TO ADD ENTIRE TEAMS.

I'll second that

WE NEED TO ADD ENTIRE TEAMS.

agreed.

And I don't mind having an Ordonez or Luis Gonzalez or Scott Rolen card representation. I just hate that, with this latest batch, Ordonez has a better card than Al Kaline, that Gonzalez is moving into Ted Williams and Stan Musial stratosphere, and Rolen is as good as Mike Schmidt.

WE NEED TO ADD ENTIRE TEAMS.

agreed.

And I don't mind having an Ordonez or Luis Gonzalez or Scott Rolen card representation. I just hate that, with this latest batch, Ordonez has a better card than Al Kaline, that Gonzalez is moving into Ted Williams and Stan Musial stratosphere, and Rolen is as good as Mike Schmidt.

I agree

Rolen's card is not as good as Mike Schmidt's. Not even close. And he has had a solid career worthy of a good card.

Rolen's card is not as good as Mike Schmidt's. Not even close. And he has had a solid career worthy of a good card.

I agree that Rolen is a fine player add. His card doesn't have the power of Schmidt's 1980 card, but his OBP and BA are better.
My larger point is that I'd rather have the top HOF guys have the best cards, THEN the Hall of Very Good like Rolen.

Not sure I agree 172 PAs is plenty to have a legitimate card. That is still a fringe card. If role/bench/low salary cap players I would at least want players who were substantial players on their teams and not real life bench players. It is after all All Time Greats and not All Time Nobodys.