Middle Defense: Another Tutorial

Actually, the Secret Formula is your opinion. It may be a very successful one, but it isn't infallible or the only way to build a successful team. And the fact you provide championship teams has no relevance to the thread topic. Everyone knows you can win with 1s and 2sx middle infielders.

And, as I said earlier, anyone has to provide evidentiary support if they are asserting something is true beyond their opinion, including you. Considering you already erroneously asserted teams with 3s middle infielders will produce runner-ups, without substantial evidence, it is perfectly reasonable for anybody to request the evidence behind your factual assertions.

And I think it's great you admit using 3s middle infielders is a viable way to win a title. The fact you are using Santana at SS proves it. But who cares about the trends you claim should be followed. There are many different ways to win championships, and whomever limits themselves to trends or formulas is simply unimaginative.

And finally, you need to check your belligerence towards me. I have been nothing but polite to you on this thread, and you have been repeatedly rude to me. There's no excuse or call for it.

For quick reference, here's an average l.strether post. Everything highlighted in red is either wrong, false, or blatantly misleading. It's time for someone else to walk the troll, my turn is over today.

Other than that, there's a lot of good stuff on here! Going stream of consciousness, coyote mentioned losing teams. I did that one year and weak middle defense was right up there with misspent salary when it came to "worst record" type teams.

I like the face to face input - more perspective! Makes you wonder about the initial point of the post: The importance of middle defense in a seven game series...

CaliENGR: Great post and a bad break. We've all had that happen to us (too often it seems)!

Thx guys for chiming in!

Star tournament player are quite experienced---and they're GM-coaches, whereas we are only GMs in Strat--so I would give them the edge.

someone wrote:

I guarantee if you do you will NEVER start a plus armed CF again

I will take that bet! Arm means very little to me. But the above quote is why I think on-line players are better than STAR tournament players overall in general.

Was refering to this post!!!

Actually, the Secret Formula is your opinion. It may be a very successful one, but it isn't infallible or the only way to build a successful team. And the fact you provide championship teams has no relevance to the thread topic. Everyone knows you can win with 1s and 2sx middle infielders.

And, as I said earlier, anyone has to provide evidentiary support if they are asserting something is true beyond their opinion, including you. Considering you already erroneously asserted teams with 3s middle infielders will produce runner-ups, without substantial evidence, it is perfectly reasonable for anybody to request the evidence behind your factual assertions.

And I think it's great you admit using 3s middle infielders is a viable way to win a title. The fact you are using Santana at SS proves it. But who cares about the trends you claim should be followed. There are many different ways to win championships, and whomever limits themselves to trends or formulas is simply unimaginative.

And finally, you need to check your belligerence towards me. I have been nothing but polite to you on this thread, and you have been repeatedly rude to me. There's no excuse or call for it.

For quick reference, here's an average l.strether post. Everything highlighted in red is either wrong, false, or blatantly misleading. What a pedantic douche. It's time for someone else to walk the troll, my turn is over today.

I'm sorry, Jeff, but in the grown-up world, simply highlighting someone's argument in red and calling it false, wrong, or misleading doesn't make it so. You clearly can't counter my arguments, so that was the best you could do. And, unlike you, I haven't made a single troll post on this thread. However, you calling me that childish, noxious name is a definite troll-move.

Other than that, there's a lot of good stuff on here! Going stream of consciousness, coyote mentioned losing teams. I did that one year and weak middle defense was right up there with misspent salary when it came to "worst record" type teams.

You clearly haven't read your Woolf or Joyce, since there is no stream-of-consciousness in my post. If there was, you would have actually pointed it out. As to middle infield defense, I clearly showed with my evidence teams can win with 3's in the middle. The fact you, yourself, are using Santana at SS on one of your teams proves you agree.

Now, you are still welcome to actually address and try to counter the salient arguments I made. However, your rambling, hostile post clearly shows you can't do so...

coyote mentioned losing teams. I did that one year and weak middle defense was right up there with misspent salary when it came to "worst record" type teams.

Respectfully, I'm skeptical of the analysis in the secret formula regarding bad teams. The good team analysis is fine, but the bad teams are summed up only at the end of the season. When teams are clearly going wrong, people often use them to check out lots of players -- you're not going to make the post-season, so make a lot of moves. The end-roster is often not reflective of the drafting choices, and this introduces a lot of bad statistics in analyzing bad teams at the end of seasons. The secret formula analysis looks only at the end of seasons, not the opening day rosters. That's why I don't believe that the salary structure theory (8,7,6,5, etc.) is anything more than a statistical artefact -- it's bound to happen, statistically, and the only refutation of my statement is that at the end of seasons, bad teams have a different distribution. But the only meaningful data is the opening day roster. I'm extremely confident that if a real statistician looked at the salary distribution theory, he would find it to be, simply, a statistical inevitability; and that the apparent deviation by bad teams is attributable to looking only at the end-season rosters, when the only relevant data for this purpose is the opening day rosters.

So I've said my piece about that, and I'll probably leave it alone from here on, except maybe to reiterate it elsewhere, or clarify something if a poster misreads me.

J-Pav, I was going to congratulate you on another interesting thread, but on reflection I think you are the troll this time! You set the bait and waited under the bridge. Like a good troll should.

Seriously though, I think 3's up the middle are more useful now than they used to be. But if you've ever played F2F Strat-O with that fielding chart in your hand, you know how painful 3's and 4's can be at 2B and SS.

All the stuff in this thread and bigmahon has the money quote, you REALLY want to see the effects of defense on the game? Play the board game. I guarantee if you do you will NEVER start a plus armed CF again. You'll understand that catcher range rating has as much effect on pass balls and wild pitches as their pass ball rating does. You'll understand the value of having asterisk rated base stealer and what having to hold him on does to the infield defense, especially those 3's who can become 4's.

Thanks Bill! I thought so too!

Unreal, he sucks the life out of every thread, sorry J-PAV....

If you cut out "the life out of every thread" , you nailed it!

Man... so many pink "User Blocked" in this thread..

Anyways, my goal has always been have Defense up the middle add up to 6 or less.

If I run a 3 somewhere, better have a 1 at one of the other spots.

I fully believe in the KISS method

On the last day of 2013...

'12 93-69 CHAMPS!
'11 100-62 Lost Semis
'10 96-66 Lost Semis
'09 97-65 Lost Semis
'08 81-81 Lost Semis
'07 87-75 Lost Finals
'06 88-74 Lost Semis
'05 ?? (No manager ratings and no post I can find!)
'04 100-62 Lost Semis

Well, since Jeep wouldn't let me win the Finals in '07, it took nine tries to finally call the shot. It wasn't for lack of trying though - that's a .573 average winning pct and quite a few playoff opportunities. All in all I don't think it's too bad a showing, considering the obvious potential for complete and total humiliation involved.

Anyway, esp for any newer players following this thread, I hope I demonstrated a solid veteran sample strategy to help get you started with SOM Online.

If you want to see the old Secret Formula posts in more detail, go to the General Strategy Forum where Palmtana itemized them on page one of the General Strategy/Newbie Advice Thread.

Happy New Year all!

Just a general rant, directed at the horizon:

Here's a community idea...

Every year, identify one team ahead of time. Write a lengthy post explaining what you'll do, how you will draft, what strategy you will be using. Let us all see the making of the sausage. Do that every year for nine years using pretty much exactly the same strategy. Post the results. Be sure to join in with all the posters that take the time to describe your lunacy and why you're "wrong" along the way! Wouldn't that be fun!

Now, my own overall winning percentage is no where near .573...hmmm...maybe I should spend more time listening to that guy...

Okay, rant over.

To Clowntime: I agree with you regarding losing teams, but only to an extent. Yes, when you divide $30 mil over 10 pitchers and $50 mil over 14 hitters, it will kinda sorta all look the same. But maybe not. There will be no $40 mil pitching staffs, no teams with three $10 mil fielders, etc. Middle defense will stand out. And misspent salary is not only mid-season salary-dumping. It's a $2 mil vs RHP/$5 mil vs LHP platoon. It's a $6 mil closer getting 20 innings with cheapy starters carrying the bulk of the innings. It's an overpaid/under-utilized backup. Hindsight makes it easier, but it can be discernible preseason.

On the last day of 2013...

'12 93-69 CHAMPS!
'11 100-62 Lost Semis
'10 96-66 Lost Semis
'09 97-65 Lost Semis
'08 81-81 Lost Semis
'07 87-75 Lost Finals
'06 88-74 Lost Semis
'05 ?? (No manager ratings and no post I can find!)
'04 100-62 Lost Semis

Well, since Jeep wouldn't let me win the Finals in '07, it took nine tries to finally call the shot. It wasn't for lack of trying though - that's a .573 average winning pct and quite a few playoff opportunities. All in all I don't think it's too bad a showing, considering the obvious potential for complete and total humiliation involved.

Anyway, esp for any newer players following this thread, I hope I demonstrated a solid veteran sample strategy to help get you started with SOM Online.

If you want to see the old Secret Formula posts in more detail, go to the General Strategy Forum where Palmtana itemized them on page one of the General Strategy/Newbie Advice Thread.

Happy New Year all!

Just a general rant, directed at the horizon:

Here's a community idea...

Every year, identify one team ahead of time. Write a lengthy post explaining what you'll do, how you will draft, what strategy you will be using. Let us all see the making of the sausage. Do that every year for nine years using pretty much exactly the same strategy. Post the results. Be sure to join in with all the posters that take the time to describe your lunacy and why you're "wrong" along the way! Wouldn't that be fun!

Now, my own overall winning percentage is no where near .573...hmmm...maybe I should spend more time listening to that guy...

Okay, rant over.

To Clowntime: I agree with you regarding losing teams, but only to an extent. Yes, when you divide $30 mil over 10 pitchers and $50 mil over 14 hitters, it will kinda sorta all look the same. But maybe not. There will be no $40 mil pitching staffs, no teams with three $10 mil fielders, etc. Middle defense will stand out. And misspent salary is not only mid-season salary-dumping. It's a $2 mil vs RHP/$5 mil vs LHP platoon. It's a $6 mil closer getting 20 innings with cheapy starters carrying the bulk of the innings. It's an overpaid/under-utilized backup. Hindsight makes it easier, but it can be discernible preseason.

Also, do not join an auto league of newbies.