Clutch is stupid... let's get rid of it

Clutch should be what that player did in real life.

Why do pitchers not have clutch?

Why do the old pitchers have ridiculous fatigue ratings?

Half the players have 20 for ground ball A. All the players should have the same cards. I know very well that those players with 20 are some generic card.

If these cards are not fantasim then what are they?

Pretty much all the non-cadillac hitter cards have 20 gbA's.

SOM has some private data to support the clutch and gbA ratings in their pre-war and deadball cadillac seasons. Hal is very proud of that, and is not going to get rid of the clutch ratings any time soon. I wish Hal would release that data for the good of the baseball analytical community but it's probably not going to happen. Among other things, there might be errors in Hal's data and I don't think he could tolerate being found to be wrong.

Rose has 25 gbA because he batted leadoff and therefore had very few DP situations. Lajoie has relatively few gbA's because he batted in the middle of the order and saw a lot of DP situations.

I say let's end players from the 1800's playing with players in the 1960's there is no way this ever happened in major league baseball. And also national league batters from the 60's should never face American league pitchers unless it is the championship season. Also the pitching mound is the wrong height as well. And no one should be able to hit a home run off of Greg Maddux ever no matter what.

I gotta disagree here with Charlie...I say the game is absolutely perfect just how it is... and each time they change it it gets perfecter and perfecter....and we, like Charlie, should bow down and pray to HAL....Charlie says "HAL is an acronym for Holliest Almighty Lord"

After years of playing ATG, I've come to the conclusion that clutch is just dumb. It adds nothing to the game, and it causes HAL to make really stupid decisions like intentionally walking weak hitters with good clutch ratings to get to good hitters with poor clutch ratings. Yes, it's adds a layer of strategy, but it's a completely arbitrary layer of strategy

Amen!

Lose the clutch.....and gba is based on what exactly, since to my knowledge (and I could be very wrong) they didn't keep that stat for much of the past? Just asking.

For chevy seasons no pitcher cards have gba for just that reason.
However, for cadillac seasons either the data was available or was available via additional research (which strat claims to have done) and/or purchase from stat companies like stats, inc. and Elias. So pitchers cards should reflect a pitcher's ability to induce double plays just as accurately as say HRs allowed or HRs on the hitter cards.

My only thing here is I believe we still have some cards from chevy seasons who now have cadillac cards available. All chevy cards should be replaced with cadillac cards where they are available.

I hear ya...I love the gba..... I'm just asking how can they come up with a logic that gives Pop Stargell, rated 8 for speed, so few gba, but Sisler 17 for speed has a ton....just another thing that seems random yes?

Not random. If you look at the stats many players who have lots of speed also hit in to a lot of double plays because they also are ground ball hitters. They either hit the ball through the infield for their hits or beat out the throw for infield singles. That high ground ball rate translates in to high double play rates. Many power hitters are slow but make their outs on fly balls and strikeouts. So stolen base ratings or running ratings may not be an indicator of double play rates. Duda and Holliday for example have hit in to 7 double plays so far this season. So has Altuve.

If you want to make a case for gba not being accurate need to use actual real life double play stats and not ratings such as run rating which may or may not be relevant.

the card that's puzzles me is the 04 lajoie. seems its either a hit or a gba? for a 1-17 runner that seems far-fetched?

Keep in mind for chevy seasons no pitchers had gba on the cards. All double plays were accounted for on the hitter cards. So all hitters from these seasons have more gba relative to their stats than than they will have once that card is available in cadillac form. Solution is to continue to strive toward having all seasons available in cadillac form. It is not removing double plays from pitchers cards which makes control pitchers less effective.

Better example....Joe Torre 1971 card and actual stats (running 8) in 707 plate appearances he grounded into 18 dps...his gba # vs righties is 15

yet

Pete Rose 1976 card and actual stats (running 16) in 759 plate appearances he grounded into 17 dps (more pa, less dp, much faster runner fwiw) and his gba vs righties is 25.


Based on what?

Valen...Here's the numbers regardless of speed....Torre "real stats hit into ***more dps*** in ***less abs*** than Pete Rose...Yets his gba is 15 and Roses' is 25


So forget speed...Just answer this....Why would player "A" that hit into a higher rate of Dps have much less gba than player "B"?

I mean isn't it all kind of crazy that Rose has 40% more gba than Torre

I love clutch and plan accordingly. I also pay attention to A+. If a runner is being held and that is rolled, it is a hit instead of a dp. Usually found on 6, 7, and 8 rolls. It's how a guy like bowa hits better following a stealer.