The sub $5M Rotation

Millram, that was one tough division we were in. Three teams with 86+ wins and the fourth with 80.

Some observations from the one team that was linked with a 5 million dollar rotation:

(1) He made sure to get excellent relief. With a cheap staff and excellent relief, Hal will replace the starter if he gets into any sort of trouble in the 5th, so those cheap starters just need to last until then and hope your relievers don't get tired from overuse;
(2) there were some holes in his defense but overall I think it is pretty good;
(3) Park cut down runners and power.
(4) starters gave up a lot of runners but not a lot of power, so the hope would be defense and park would reduce runners enough so that starters would not totally blow-up, even in a batter-friendly park; the 1(-4) catcher hopefully takes away some cheap runs.
(5) Pretty good mix of guys with average, on-base and some speed to be effective in a pitcher's park;
(6) Starting pitching record was 51-56 and relief was 40-15. So once game into to the 5th,6th or 7th this team was significantly better than other teams for the most part.
(7) had a very low-injury team.

Unless you have elite starters not getting a dominant relief core is problematic, I think. But of course there are many different ways to win; if there weren't then we would all get bored. I suspect the margin of error for a 5 million rotation is pretty thin though.

That was a solid analysis, and I agree with most of what you said except this:

Unless you have elite starters not getting a dominant relief core is problematic, I think.

This either/or isn't really there. One can easily win with less than elite starters and without a dominant relief corps. One can certainly easily do so with a rotation less than 20-25m. One can even viably win with a cheap (7.5-15m) rotation and without a dominant relief corps; I (and others) have done it many times. However, as you said, once you dip below 5M, that bullpen better be pretty good.

I think in general it is a good idea to pair good relief with a cheap staff (when you elect to have a cheap rotation).The reason is simple: on average you're getting significant value from those relievers that you would not be likely to match in putting that money into offense/defense. Could you? Sure, especially given the vagaries of chance. And of course even if you made a bad decision it could be outweighed by your overall skill in picking players, weaker than average league, favorable ballparks, favorable match-ups between division opponents, etc. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that Hal undervalues elite relievers when they are paired with weaker SP. It's like having a homerun hitter with a lot of BP hrs being put in a an extreme HR park. I am usually reluctant to forego advantages like that but if others want to go with different strategies that have been successful with them, I am certainly not going to argue against those strategies.

Good thoughts, freeman.

I'm having some success with a similar team--but it's a 60m league, so perhaps the move is not as bold as for the team mbertolli has linked to :

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1402659

In my case, I went with a stadium with High Bp homeruns, so I went with cheap SP with relatively low power, high on-base, with perhaps the exception of L.Hendricks, who is a spot starter for low BP stadiums. I too went with a stellar reliever, Betances, to eat up the middle innings.

I must say though that offensively, I didn't go with a balance mix---I went with 3 of the 4 highest paid players, and I'm backing them with a bunch of sub 3m crew. Fun team to manage I must say.

Yeah, I looked at your team before and I thought that was a good strategy to try in a 60 million DH team just because that pitching staff could survive in a league with weaker offenses due to no DH and less money. And of course your offense is so much better than everyone else's. Wish I had thought of it .
In general, if you can find very cheap guys who give you good value and combine that with several very- high priced offensive guys --that 's a tough combination to beat. Nice job.

Marc. I was actually going to link that team as well (it was the other one I found) but left it out for the same reason, the $60M.

These teams have me wanting to give one a shot!

Michael.

I think in general it is a good idea to pair good relief with a cheap staff. The reason is simple: on average you're getting significant value from those relievers that you would not be likely to match in putting that money into offense/defense. Could you? Sure, especially given the vagaries of chance.

I'm not sure how you would define "good relief," Freeman, but I have certainly put together winning teams, and championship teams, with cheap rotations without "dominant" relief, as you mentioned earlier. So, it's not just dependent on "the vagaries of chance," although Paul Auster would appreciate that phrase. Here are some of my teams:

2013 Championship team with 12.9m rotation and 7.69m bullpen
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1128412
2012 Championship team with 15.86m rotation and 10.55m bullpen
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1105341
2014 team made the finals with a 17m rotation and a 6-man 10.5m bullpen
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1396900
2014 team made the finals with a 13.26m rotation and a 9.11m bullpen
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/1397202
2011 team won 91 and made the playoffs with 14.99m rotation and 10.5m bullpen
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/819897
2008 team made playoffs with 12.10m rotation and 8.71m bullpen
http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/team/228188

So, going without an elite staff and and elite bullpen is a completely viable way to win and win championships...even with 80m teams unlike Marc's 60m one. And doing so definitely isn't just dependent on "the vagaries of chance." I'm surprised you and Marc think it is.

In my case, I went with a stadium with High Bp homeruns, so I went with cheap SP with relatively low power, high on-base, with perhaps the exception of L.Hendricks, who is a spot starter for low BP stadiums. I too went with a stellar reliever, Betances, to eat up the middle innings.

Fun team to manage I must say.

There's a lot of different ways to win in this game - thanks for showing us one - and anytime you're having fun with your team - it's all good.

that pitching staff could survive in a league with weaker offenses due to no DH and less money.

You're right that no dh and weaker offense help my pitching squad, but actually, the primary motive for me was whether it was possible to have success with 50% of the payroll spent on 3 players---as opposed to spreading out the money more uniformly---and the 60M payroll allowed me to test this strategy. It has worked so far, but I'm not convinced this is the best formula: while my team is having some success, it's not dominating and I wouldn't be surprised that my team finishes around 85 wins only. When you crush the numbers, both my offense and my pitching have been very lucky----so I must expect to hit a plateau as things even out a bit.

Thankfully, my divisional rivals are struggling a bit, so 85 wins might be enough to get me in the playoffs.