all-star Alcides Escobar isn't even the THIRD best A.L. SS

KC fans definitely got some of their players more votes than they deserved. I suspect it was not so much KC fans as some KC fans who figured out how to game the system via some means. 35 votes per email address is silly but taking advantage of that by using multiple email address would be tedious. Yes, you could in theory get hundreds of votes but that means sitting there and voting that many times..... unless you use a clever means to automate the process. I suspect someone or a group of someones did exactly that.

Regarding zone ratings this is another sabr stat I am not fond of. It turns fielding in to a bit of a figure skating venture. What exactly is my zone if for example I am in a shift and there is only a few feet between me and the second baseman? What is my zone if I play third and have a Ozzie Smith at short. I remember playing on one team which had a great SS and being told by the coach my job was to guard the line. Anything to my left let him have it. So my "zone" was me to the foul line. With any other SS beside me I was free to roam and take anything I could get to.

In addition like many sabr stats when you reference it you have to include your source as there is more than one organization calculating it using different methods.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/what-is-zone-rating/

KC fans definitely got some of their players more votes than they deserved.

We already covered that. Fans do tend to vote for their own players; it makes no sense to deride the KC fans about it.

I suspect it was not so much KC fans as some KC fans who figured out how to game the system via some means. 35 votes per email address is silly but taking advantage of that by using multiple email address would be tedious. Yes, you could in theory get hundreds of votes but that means sitting there and voting that many times..... unless you use a clever means to automate the process. I suspect someone or a group of someones did exactly that.

This is both unfair and a little bit paranoid. Ever since MLB opened up voting to the internet, all fans were given the opportunity to "game" the system and vote with many different ids from different IPs. To suggest only some small cabal in small-market KC "used a clever means to automate the process" doesn't make sense.

Regarding zone ratings this is another sabr stat I am not fond of. It turns fielding in to a bit of a figure skating venture.

No it doesn't. As Fangraphs eloquently puts it: "Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) is one of the most widely used, publicly available defensive statistics. UZR puts a run value to defense, attempting to quantify how many runs a player saved or gave up through their fielding prowess (or lack thereof)." So, it is an incredibly valuable statistic, and Valen's curious figure skating analogy doesnt' apply.
http://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/uzr/

In addition like many sabr stats when you reference it you have to include your source as there is more than one organization calculating it using different methods.

Valen is actually telling everybody how we have to include our sources when we reference sabr stats. That's chutzpah. Considering almost nobody has done so on this Forum; it's curious why he makes such a demand now. I, myself, used Fangraphs, but Clown doesn't have to cite his sources for me.

Brad Miller? Hell I'm a Mariners fan and we don't even think he should be the starting SS for US. Taylor is better defensively

This is good enough for me. Trust his judgement, especially since he is a Mariner fan and thus is more familar with Mariner players than me.

Question on Miller. What was he on the DL for this year? How did team fare during his absence compared to when he has been in lineup?

If one had any doubt that something unusual above what has transpired in previous years need look no further than....

620 mil total votes compared with 391 mil previous record. Though will acknowledge a contributing factor was increasing the number of votes per email address from 25 to 35.

Infante being in the neighborhood of Altuve or Kipnis.

Morales almost edging out Cruz.

If voting is going to stay with fans the number of votes allowed per person needs to be lowered. 35 is just silly. And it needs to be tied to something that limits how many 35 (or whatever) block of votes each is allowed. I personally have over a dozen email addresses for various business and personal interests and tracking purposes. Do I really deserve over 400 votes that would have granted me? And I could easily generate another dozen or more within 5 minutes if I wanted. Who starts should not be determined by how many fans are willing to game the system as clearly happened this year.

At the very least only give one vote per email address.

If one had any doubt that something unusual above what has transpired in previous years need look no further than....

This sentence makes no sense.

620 mil total votes compared with 391 mil previous record. Though will acknowledge a contributing factor was increasing the number of votes per email address from 25 to 35.

That doesn't automatically point to a sinister cabal of wicked KC voters. Many factors could have caused this.

Infante being in the neighborhood of Altuve.
Morales almost edging out Cruz.

Yes. As I noted above, fans often vote a lot for players who aren't deserving. Considering this has happened many years before, Valen's distress over it happening this year, too, is bewildering.

If voting is going to stay with fans the number of votes allowed per person needs to be lowered. 35 is just silly. And it needs to be tied to something that limits how many 35 (or whatever) block of votes each is allowed. I personally have over a dozen email addresses for various business and personal interests and tracking purposes. Do I really deserve over 400 votes that would have granted me? And I could easily generate another dozen or more within 5 minutes if I wanted. Who starts should not be determined by how many fans are willing to game the system as clearly happened this year.

Valen says 35 votes per fan is just "silly," then goes on to show how MLB can't even stop fans from voting more than 35 times. So, that limit is hardly the problem.

At the very least only give one vote per email address.

I don't think rigid restriction of fan participation is the customer-relations model MLB would really like to adapt. Companies, even sports leagues, tend to encourage greater engagement with themselves.

As far as I can remember Miller was never on the DL this year. He did miss a few games with stomach flu and a couple more with another minor illness. McClendon started working him in the outfield and 1b this spring saying "I envision Brad as kind of a super-utility guy that can help us all over"

As far as AL all-star SS goes, I think Iglesias is the best ss in the AL right now. Escobar is an amazing defender though, and I have no quibbles with him as one of the top ss's right now.

So based on that even the manager does not consider him to be the clear no question starting SS for his team. That does not bode well in my opinion for him being the best SS in the league which is what the starting allstar slot should mean.

Looking at MLB fielding stats for Mariners at SS
1 Bloomquist, W SEA SS 7 5 39.0 20 6 14 0 1 - - - - - 1.000 2.86
2 Taylor, C SEA SS 21 19 174.1 83 26 55 2 8 - - - - - .976 3.86
3 Miller, B SEA SS 62 58 522.0 272 80 184 8 46 - - - - - .971 4.26

So if there have been no DL stints to explain have to conclude manager does not consider Miller to be clear cut best option every day for his own team. In my opinion if he were deserving of allstar starting slot he would be the no question every day option for his own team with only being spelled occasionally for rest.

Consider same search for Rangers. This does not mean Elvis should be considered for allstar team but clearly shows what this should look like for someone who is clear choice for starter on his own team. Only 5 games where Elvis got a mental/physical day off for rest.

1 Alberto, H TEX SS 4 2 25.0 11 3 8 0 3 - - - - - 1.000 2.75
1 Field, T TEX SS 1 0 4.0 2 1 1 0 0 - - - - - 1.000 2.00
3 Andrus, E TEX SS 81 81 712.2 372 119 239 14 50 - - - - - .962 4.42

Boston

1 Bianchi, J BOS SS 1 0 1.0 2 1 1 0 1 - - - - - 1.000 2.00
1 Marrero, D BOS SS 1 0 1.0 1 1 0 0 0 - - - - - 1.000 1.00
3 Bogaerts, X BOS SS 80 78 690.0 363 138 220 5 50 - - - - - .986 4.48
4 Holt, B BOS SS 8 6 57.0 31 8 21 2 5 - - - - - .935 3.63

Finally KC 15 games where another option than Escobar was chosen. I do not know however if this was due to a DL stint of just another case of a player not being clear cut #1 choice on team for position.

1 Calixte, O KC SS 1 0 4.0 2 0 2 0 0 - - - - - 1.000 2.00
2 Escobar, A KC SS 69 69 599.1 291 106 177 8 34 - - - - - .973 4.10
3 Colon, C KC SS 14 10 95.2 43 13 28 2 7 - - - - - .953 2.93

And finally Detroit

1 Perez, H DET SS 3 2 20.0 3 1 2 0 0 - - - - - 1.000 1.00
1 Wilson, J DET SS 1 1 8.0 2 0 2 0 0 - - - - - 1.000 2.00
3 Iglesias, J DET SS 70 66 591.2 280 89 184 7 42 - - - - - .975 3.90
4 Romine, A DET SS 12 10 90.0 57 22 33 2 11 - - - - - .965 4.58
5 Machado, D DET SS 3 2 20.0 12 5 6 1 2 - - - - - .917 3.67

Now to be clear I am not saying the above should be primary factor in allstar game starter selection. Just an indication that someone other than Miller. Still open minded on whether Escobar should or should not be the starter. Not as opposed to that selection as I am to other players on KC team.

KC fans definitely got some of their players more votes than they deserved. I suspect it was not so much KC fans as some KC fans who figured out how to game the system via some means. 35 votes per email address is silly but taking advantage of that by using multiple email address would be tedious. Yes, you could in theory get hundreds of votes but that means sitting there and voting that many times..... unless you use a clever means to automate the process. I suspect someone or a group of someones did exactly that.

I think it was the KC fans, actually, and not any gaming of the system. Folks here are still riding the wave of their first playoff appearance in years. They love these players and haven't experienced enough success to become blase about them. I would suspect that, assuming the success can be maintained a couple more years, you'll see the number of ballots cast by KC folks decline.

That seems like a plausible theory pwooten. Perhaps the long drought has them motivated enough to make effort to fill out hundreds of ballots. Guess when all the dust clears I would rather KC fans spam their players in than have NY fans determining who starts.