all-star Alcides Escobar isn't even the THIRD best A.L. SS

Here's what the 3 most prominent sabrmetric organizations have to say on this issue:

1. Xander Bogaerts (Fangraphs #1, Baseball Prospectus #1, Baseball Reference #1)

2. Brad Miller (2nd-tied, 2nd-tied, 4th-tied).

3. Jose Iglesias (2nd-tied, 4th, 2nd-tied)

4. Escobar (4th tied, 2nd-tied, 7th)

5. Correa (4th tied, 5th, 2nd-tied)

6. Aybar (6th, 6th, 4th-tied).


He's no Ripken/Arod/Nomar, but Bogaerts probably deserves the nod for AS starter for 2015. And Miller has a perfectly viable argument for the nod too, the sabrmetric systems are in agreement. The original contention in this thread that Escobar has been about 4th best in 2015 is correct per the sabrmetric consensus, although I don't think he's an awful pick once track record is factored into the equation. Correa hasn't played much but has played so well he vaults himself into the 2nd tier. And Aybar emerges as an underrated, steady player per sabrmetric analysis.

I'll take the consensus of these sites over the self-serving rantings of a community college prof any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I thought you would go on one of your rants about me again, Nasty; you always do after I reveal your terrible trade analysis skills. So, I checked out your ridiculous post. I got all of my information for this post from Fangraphs--a very respectable Stats site--so my cogent argument--unlike yours--wasn't a rant:

That's funny, Bogaerts and Iglesias both have superior fielding pcts to Miller's. They both have better UZR (ultimate zone) ratings better than Miller. They both have made less errors than Miller. They have better ErrR (error runs) ratings than Miller. They both have better Def. ratings than Miller. Bogaerts has a superior OoZ (out of zone) rating than Miller, and Iglesias has a better RangeRating than Miller.

So, I think it's safe to say Bogaerts and Iglesias have better fielding stats than Miller.

Miller ECLIPSES in Secondary Average ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_average )

And Miller may ECLIPSE in secondary average, but secondary average is just a compensatory stat to better evaluate what a player's batting average doesn't. It certainly doesn't override a player's poor OBP or slugging percentage, and--as I noted earlier--both of Miller's are poor, as he has an anemic line of .240/.314/417 line (for a lowly .731 OPS). When compared to Bogaert's line of .302/.339/.414 and Iglesias' of line of .323/.374/.384, it's clear those shortstops have been superior offensively as well.

So, argue against those stats if you can. Since you can't, i won't bother to read it. And I'm glad you're not trusting the rants of a community college professor, since I'm not one...

I thought you would go on one of your rants about me again, Nasty; you always do after I reveal your terrible trade analysis skills. So, I checked out your ridiculous post. I got all of my information for this post from Fangraphs--a very respectable Stats site--so my cogent argument--unlike yours--wasn't a rant:

That's funny, Bogaerts and Iglesias both have superior fielding pcts to Miller's. They both have better UZR (ultimate zone) ratings better than Miller. They both have made less errors than Miller. They have better ErrR (error runs) ratings than Miller. They both have better Def. ratings than Miller. Bogaerts has a superior OoZ (out of zone) rating than Miller, and Iglesias has a better RangeRating than Miller.

So, I think it's safe to say Bogaerts and Iglesias have better fielding stats than Miller.

Miller ECLIPSES in Secondary Average ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_average )

And Miller may ECLIPSE in secondary average, but secondary average is just a compensatory stat to better evaluate what a player's batting average doesn't. It certainly doesn't override a player's poor OBP or slugging percentage, and--as I noted earlier--both of Miller's are poor, as he has an anemic line of .240/.314/417 line (for a lowly .731 OPS). When compared to Bogaert's line of .302/.339/.414 and Iglesias' of line of .323/.374/.384, it's clear those shortstops have been superior offensively as well.

So, argue against those stats if you can. Since you can't, i won't bother to read it. And I'm glad you're not trusting the rants of a community college professor, since I'm not one...

Liar, you will read Nasty's comments and come with back with more BS.

Guess you forgot to use spell check, "i" should be capitalized

Yes, you cherry picked the parts of Fangraphs' analysis that supported your previously arrived at conclusion and ignored their overall assssment of Miller as the 2nd best shortstop in the AL so far this season. Bravo, you've demonstrated the concept of confirmation bias to this community. Over and over again.

And your ignore button sure doesn't work properly. You just can't quit me.

Bogaerts and Iglesias are both having better years than Escobar, too.

I note that Iglesias has been named to the team, and Bogaerts is one of the five (from all positions) in the second vote.

Kansas city fans have exposed what a joke the all star voting process is. 30 votes per day? how many fans take the time to do that? that needs to be trimmed considerably, and they need to return some sort of voting to fans at the ballpark.

Kansas city fans have exposed what a joke the all star voting process is. 30 votes per day? how many fans take the time to do that? that needs to be trimmed considerably, and they need to return some sort of voting to fans at the ballpark.

Kansas City fans haven't exposed anything. Fans have been voting in the wrong starters for years; that's what happens when you give the voting to all fans (whom the game is for), not just the well-informed ones. And fans have done much worse in the past than Escobar, Gordon, and Perez, who are all fine players having fine seasons.

As long as internet voting remains, i have no problem with reasonable voting limits...but keeping fans from voting with different ids and ips is almost impossible. However, returning all or most of the voting to fans at the ballpark would be both illogical and unfair. A significant amount of baseball fans primarily enjoy MLB on television or on the internet. So, it would be unfair to those fans to negate or minimalize their voting participation. It would also be a terrible financial and public relations move, as it would alienate both present customers and future ones who MLB could engage through the internet.

It is indeed a lean year for shortstops, especially considering Jhonny Peralta is considered one of the best.