The state of the trade market

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Ninersphan

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Jul 26, 2015 4:31 pm

Risden wrote:I'm a big fan of Cueto - despite occasional injury flare-ups, the guy can dominate a game like very few others.

However, if the Reds are able to get Brandon Finnegan as part of the deal, my hat's off to the Reds. Finnegan looks like a solid # 3 starter.



Take your hat off then, now being reported as left-handers Brandon Finnegan, John Lamb and Cody Reed for Cueto and cash.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Jul 26, 2015 4:51 pm

l.strether wrote:Supposedly the trade has hit a hitch, and Price is denying it. However, if it does go through as reported, I would rate it as such:

For the Royals, it's a huge addition to a successful team with WS potential but problems in its rotation. While off-season acquisition Edinson Volquez has been solid, last year's plus starter Danny Duffy has struggled, and Jeremy Guthrie and last year's excellent rookie Yordano Ventura have struggled mightily...with Ventura being demoted. The Royals are giving up substantial talent for a player they most likely won't re-sign, but they don't have perennial opportunities to win the Title; so, they need to jump on the ones they get. If Manaea, who also throws hard (with average command), is also included, I would still applaud the move, but say they gave up a bit much.

As to the Reds, they, too would have been unlikely to sign Cueto, considering his probable demands and recent health issues. So, Finnegan and Lamb give them much-needed left-handed pitching, considering their now top three starters--Lorenzen, Leake, and DeSclafani--and top pitching prospect--Robert Stephenson--are all right handed. Finnegan is clearly the jewel of the deal. Smallish but hard-throwing, he was the Royals' 1st-round pick last year, making the majors that same season, and has both solid #3 starter and closer/quality set-up material. Lamb is a bit of a wild-card. 5 years ago, he was one of their top prospects as a hard-throwing lefty with dazzling stuff. But he blew out his elbow in 2011, and his slow recovery lowered him to "suspect." However, he has come back nicely this year, dominating at AAA Omaha and could be a solid back-end starter for the Reds.

This of course is all up for amendment if the reported package changes or the trade is annulled... ;)

Since I said I would amend my evaluation of the Cueto trade once the trade was finalized, I will go ahead and do so. While Reed doesn't have Manaea's pedigree, storied background, or raw stuff, he is still a nice third pickup for the Reds in this deal, making it even sweeter for them. Reed was only the Royals 28th prospect going into this year, but he substantially improved his control this year at HiA and AA to move to #9, and looks like a solid back-end rotation prospect with even a #3 starter ceiling. So, he and Lamb will join Amir Garrett as the Reds top lefties in the minors, assuming Finnegan goes straight to the big league club.

As to the Royals' payout, it is still a justifiable one considering they get an ace to help their uncommon shot at the title. Considering they kept Manaea and Lamb was deemed lost a year ago, it's a sustainable "hit" on their system.
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STEVE F

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Jul 26, 2015 5:31 pm

:?:
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pwootten

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Jul 26, 2015 7:34 pm

Royals were starting to view Finnegan's future as being a reliever, it seemed. I think he'll be a MLB pitcher for ten years. Lamb wasn't held in high regard, and I'm not sure why. Glad to see Cueto come to town for a couple months and wish the best to the guys headed to Cincy.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Jul 26, 2015 9:08 pm

pwootten wrote:Lamb wasn't held in high regard, and I'm not sure why.

I touched on that earlier:
l.strether wrote: Lamb is a bit of a wild-card. 5 years ago, he was one of their top prospects as a hard-throwing lefty with dazzling stuff. But he blew out his elbow in 2011, and his slow recovery lowered him to "suspect." However, he has come back nicely this year, dominating at AAA Omaha and could be a solid back-end starter for the Reds.

So, while he's not a top prospect anymore, he does still rest at 89-93 mph regularly, can still hit 95, and has produced a 2.67 ERA and 1.16 whip in AAA. So, Baseball America still considers him a legitimate future #4-#5 starter. That's hardly the high past expectations of him, but it's certainly respectable.
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Ninersphan

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostMon Jul 27, 2015 7:27 pm

Mets staying busy with small deals they acquire Tyler Clippeard from the A's for A ball pitcher Casey Meisner, who was considered one of the Mets better lower pitching prospects. He's had good stats in stints at both Savanna and Port St Lucie.
Mets needed another arm as Mejia is ineligible for the post season assuming the Mets get there.
Blevins and Matz could get the go ahead to start throwing this week too so that's even more pitching support.
And Boston dumps Shane Victorino on the Angels in exchange for Jeff Rutledge and cash. Looks like a classic salary dump.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostMon Jul 27, 2015 7:35 pm

The Mets continue to add pieces to their playoff drive by adding reliever Tyler Clippard for Rhp prospect Casey Meisner. Clippard had been doing a solid job closing for the A's, but with Familia doing an excellent job closing for the Mets, the veteran will probably be assigned setup duties. The super-tall and thin Meisner doesn't throw particularly hard, was only the Met's 21st top prospect, and is a small price to pay for a valuable bullpen addition. Considering the Mets held onto superior pitching prospects Micheal Fulmer, Marcos Molina, and Gabriel Ynoa, it's particularly nice for them.

Although I liked Beane's pickup for Kazmir, this seems like little return for a solid reliever many teams could have used. I'm sure he and Forst sees something, though, in this pitcher BA sees as having #4 starter potential.
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teamnasty

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Jul 28, 2015 12:58 am

One inning relievers , even good ones like Clippard, just don't command the same prospect haul as quality starting pitchers like Kazmir. Nor should they. Wise move both teams.
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teamnasty

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Jul 28, 2015 12:59 am

Wow, Tulo to the Jays for Reyes and prospects! Didn't see that one coming. Glad the Mets didn't get him.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Jul 28, 2015 1:11 am

teamnasty wrote:One inning relievers , even good ones like Clippard, just don't command the same prospect haul as quality starting pitchers like Kazmir. Nor should they. Wise move both teams.

I never said they should have gotten the same return as they got for Kazmir, so that statement's irrelevant to my point.

However, quality relievers can and do net better hauls than the A's got for Clippard and for Kazmir, particularly from teams in the hunt. Andrew Miller is pretty much a one-inning reliever and he netted Boston Eduardo Rodriguez, one of Baltimore's best pitching prospects and a hard-throwing left-handed starter who has shined often this year. And almost all GM's would even prefer him to what the A's got for Kazmir. So, yes, good one-inning relievers can net a nice payoff.
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