The state of the trade market

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Valen

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSat Aug 08, 2015 11:32 pm

Also heard today that Napoli has been obtained by the Rangers to play first and DH against left hand pitching.
Be interesting to see who loses playing time and if Napoli can get hot and make a difference in the poor record against LH pitching.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Aug 09, 2015 12:19 am

Valen wrote:Just learned something new on the Hamels trade. I went to check how Matt Harrison has done since the trade and his game log showed no games pitched since July 27. Not one pitch thrown for the Phillies. That was strange I thought to myself. Looked at their active roster and no Harrison. Looked at their 40 man and Harrison appeared to be on the 15 day disabled list. What??????

Harrison's shaky health was kind of common knowledge. It's why I hyperbolically joked this in my original analysis of the trade:
l.strether wrote:6. Harrison is obviously a toss-in the Phillies might have had to take for money reason. The man hasn't been healthy since the days of Napster.

How much of that did Rangers know before the trade? How much did they share with Phillies? If Philly knew did Rangers say in order for the quality and quantity of prospects to be included that were Philly would have to take on Matt and be the ones to eat his remaining guaranteed salary.

Injury reports are always above board. I don't know the actual legalities, but anything unkosher on the Rangers side could have nixed the deal. As to Philly having to take Harrison, I already surmised that in my quote above.
If so then this trade is better for the Rangers than I originally thought and one has to start considering it a good deal for Rangers in spite of giving up 5 quality prospects.

Again, I factored that in my original analysis. The Phillies certainly didn't tell the Rangers, "we've got to have Harrison." As to the Rangers giving up "5 quality prospects," I would reduce that to 3 1/2: Alfaro, Williams, Thompson, and Asher (kind of). Eickhoff wasn't even among Texas' top 30 prospects, barely tops 90, and hasn't done well over HIA. He is not in the same league as the other 4.
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teamnasty

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostSun Aug 09, 2015 12:27 am

Harrison was thrown into the deal solely as a way of mitigating the financial cost of Hamels so Texas would be willing to include several quality prospects. Harrison is a sunk cost with a bad contract that Philly isn't counting on to produce on their next winning team.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Aug 18, 2015 9:23 pm

Well, Texas made the first (semi) significant Waiver-Wire period trade by acquiring Of Will Venable for minor league-catcher Marcus Greene. While Venable's standout 2013 season looks more and more like a fluke, he is still an excellent defensive outfielder who can play all three Of positions, and has decent speed and pop. He also had a decent line against rh'ers--.266/.330/.397--and should be a welcome addition to the Rangers, who had to demote the disappointing Leonys Martin. At worst, Venable will be a valuable 4th-5th outfielder, who will fill in at all Of spots, and provide pinch-running and left-handed pinch-hitting production off the bench. At best, he could legitimately take playing time away from DeShields if Banister wants more pop, or from Hamilton if he wants more speed and better defense.

The price was very cheap, as Greene's ceiling is as a catch-and-throw backup with a questionable bat, and just had TJ surgery. So, it's a solid deal for the Rangers, who are only 1 game out of the 2nd Wild Card spot, and I'm surprised the Padres couldn't get more for the useful outfielder.
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Valen

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Aug 18, 2015 9:47 pm

May change my mind about the Venable trade after I watch him some but initial feeling is bad move. Agree the price of Greene is minimal. But the lineup needed a RH bat, not another LH bat. I would rather have Martin brought back. He has done well since going down and is outstanding defensively. The Venable of 2014 and so far in 2015 is not going to provide much additional punch. And this forces the outrighting of Choice. I never liked the trade that brought him here but still that is bad roster management.

I will hate this Venable trade if it costs Deshields any playing time. He has been the difference maker in that lineup. It is a different and better team when he is in that leadoff spot.

Have to wonder though with Hamilton missing a couple more games this week with a sore knee if this deal is not as much about insurance against him going back on DL as anything else. In the end this figures to be a 2 week rental as Gallo is likely brought back when rosters expand unless the AAA playoffs are deemed more important than potential playoff run for the parent club.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Aug 18, 2015 10:13 pm

Valen wrote:May change my mind about the Venable trade after I watch him some but initial feeling is bad move. Agree the price of Greene is minimal. But the lineup needed a RH bat, not another LH bat. I would rather have Martin brought back. He has done well since going down and is outstanding defensively. The Venable of 2014 and so far in 2015 is not going to provide much additional punch. And this forces the outrighting of Choice. I never liked the trade that brought him here but still that is bad roster management.

Venable has 6 hrs in 200 abs against righties, so he still has usable power and could easily add additional punch, punch and power that Deshields doesn't have. And how is outrighting Choice a bad thing? He had a terrible year last year, is not a good defensive outfielder, and was having a bad year in AAA. So, he couldn't help the Rangers this year; Venable can. That's very good roster management for a team in the playoff hunt.
I will hate this Venable trade if it costs Deshields any playing time. He has been the difference maker in that lineup. It is a different and better team when he is in that leadoff spot.

Considering the trade cost them nothing, hating it is a bit extreme. Deshields is not a great hitter and has no power. In parks where Banister might want some more pop, Venable would be a solid replacement for DeShields...who will still get playing time.
Have to wonder though with Hamilton missing a couple more games this week with a sore knee if this deal is not as much about insurance against him going back on DL as anything else. In the end this figures to be a 2 week rental as Gallo is likely brought back when rosters expand unless the AAA playoffs are deemed more important than potential playoff run for the parent club.

I already said that Venable would be taking time from Hamilton, who has not been outstanding since they acquired him. And it's not a "two-week" rental. Even if Gallo plays more at RF than Dh, and that's not certain, Venable will still be--as I said in my last post--a solid 4th or 5th outfielder, left-handed pinch hitter, defensive replacement, and pinch runner. That's not a two-week rental, it's a valuable addition to a team who needs all 25 player to contribute to its playoff run.
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Valen

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostTue Aug 18, 2015 11:39 pm

I just read that Martin has a broken hamate bone in his right hand. Exams by a specialist determined this may be a pre-existing injury. That probably means he has been dealing with this for a while. It also could explain why he fell off and looked so bad this year instead of making progress. It also means he could not be counted on to make a return and be helpful. Word is he will rest it in hopes of being a September callup.

With the Martin situation being what it is that makes acquiring Venable making more sense. His playing time though should be strictly to spell Hamilton when his health keeps him out of lineup. Even then I would only start him in LF against RH pitchers who are tough on RH hitters. Otherwise I am content to see Strausborger get the playing time. Deshields does not leave that lineup except for an occasional rest day.

On brighter Ranger news also read today Mazara has been promoted to AAA. Be interesting to see how he fares. According to what I read today he was one of two teenagers to hit 20 or more HRs in minors last year. And he has held his own at AA after a slow start. He handles AAA well and he may make an appearance in Arlington next year. Definitely on target for the 2017 season.
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Valen

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostWed Aug 19, 2015 3:53 pm

From everything I am able to read Hamilton will be going back on the DL. So the Venable acquisition was probably needed for a playoff run this year. I would expect him to platoon with Strausbborger and not take playing time away from anyone else.

Tonight could be a critical night for the Rangers. Holland returns. If he returns on fire like he did last year it would be a huge boost. If he returns rusty and takes half a dozen starts to get rolling that would be a big blow. Either way he is going to be a regular in the rotation, either helping team tread water or pulling it under water.
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Valen

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostWed Aug 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Rangers also designated Rosales for assignment today. Like Choice earlier another example of poor overall roster maintenance. When I say that I am referring to keeping both these marginal players on 40 man roster tying up a spot that forced some earlier difficult and possible bad long term decisions.
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l.strether

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Re: The state of the trade market

PostWed Aug 19, 2015 4:20 pm

The Dodgers have just acquired Chase Utley for two unnamed minor leaguers most definitely not named Corey Seager, Julio Urias, Alex Verdugo, Jose Peraza, or Grant Holmes. With Howie Kendrick out with a hamstring for probably until mid-September at the earliest, Utley immediately becomes the Dodger's second baseman, re-uniting with his old keystone partner, Jimmy Rollins. Considering top prospect Peraza didn't look ready, and Alex Guerrero is a terrible 2nd baseman, the trade is a huge pickup for the Dodgers, particularly since they also kept him away from division rival the Giants, who were strongly pursuing Utley.

For the Phils, it marks another end of an era, as Utley, despite his many games missed due to injuries, was one of their greatest and most-beloved players. It also allows them to fully hand over the 2b job over to Cesar Hernandez, who has played well this season, if not yet showing his base-stealing abilities.
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