Closer rating question

I read Garcia's recent blog on closer ratings. I play mostly ATG where they do not apply.

Garcia states "Pitchers with an N rating are treated the same as 0 rated closer and are automatically fatigued in a "closer situation" once allowing either a hit or a walk."

Question - What exactly is the difference between a reliever without a closer rating and one with a C0? I assume there is some reason to get the C0, rather than just be left without a rating?

Thanks.

Think of it as 1/2 of a closer like maybe there's a slight endurance factor of 1 or 2 batters without fatigue setting in

Reliever being brought into the game

When bringing a relief pitcher into the game in a closer situation ignore his Relief Endurance rating. Instead use his Closer Endurance rating to determine the number of outs he can record before he loses his effectiveness.

Once this number of outs have been recorded, the pitcher will lose his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. If a pitcher is rated 0, then he loses his effectiveness as soon as he allows a hit or a walk. When a pitcher loses his effectiveness, he has reached his POW.

If the pitcher being brought into the game in a closer situation has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he enters the game with the loss effectiveness penalty already in affect (he has reached his POW). For pitchers rated as a "N", this penalty is always in effect starting with the first batter they face in a closer situation.

Got it - thanks.

Adding to the confusion in understanding the details are two contradictory statements:

John Garcia says: Pitchers with an N rating are treated the same as 0 rated closer and are automatically fatigued in a "closer situation" once allowing either a hit or a walk.


Lance says:
If the pitcher being brought into the game in a closer situation has a Closer Endurance rating of "N", then he enters the game with the loss effectiveness penalty already in affect (he has reached his POW). For pitchers rated as a "N", this penalty is always in effect starting with the first batter they face in a closer situation.


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Is non-closer fatigued immediately or only after allowing a walk/hit?

What Lancebousley wrote is the rule that applies in strat and this is WHAT should be applied in the online game, but unfortunately, this is not how the online game was coded. In fact, the game engine doesn't distinguish between "no rating" and C0, just as John wrote: the engine acts as if both type of relievers have a C0 rating, and no reliever comes in the game automatically fatigued.

Consider these games:

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 427257/551

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 427257/512


Blevins clearly enters the game in a save mode (9th inning, 1-run lead), he has no closer rating, so he should entered the game as "fatigued", and yet he is NOT automatically fatigued (he finishes F9).

In fact, I've got many examples to show that the pitcher remains in full cylinders until he allows a hit or a walk. Another example, this one from Webb, who has no closer rating either.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 426946/413

He got a full inning at F9 despite having no closer rating.

In this next example, however, because Webb allows a walk, his rating immediately falls back to F5

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 426946/373

(Notice that Duensing, who has no closer rating, relieves him, and gets the out, and finishes at F9)

What these examples show is that a reliever without a closer rating (or with a C0 rating) will not be recognized as fatigued (other than by regular rules) UNLESS he allows a hit or a walk (or expressed otherwise, the rating refers to the number of outs a reliever can go before BECOMING VULNERABLE TO being recognized as fatigued). Because their closer rating is 0, they are fatigued immediately after allowing something.

In contrast, a pitcher with, say, a C2 rating can expect to cash in at least 2 outs in the closer situation (as defined by SOM) before getting fatigued by allowing something. If the C2 closer gets two quick outs, his rating falls to 0, then he becomes immediately fatigued just like a C0 after allowing a hit or a walk. However, if the C2 closer starts the ninth inning in a closer situation and allows a hit or a walk to the first hitter, then he may get two outs while keeping his F9 rating until he allows something.

Two examples to illustrate what has just been written, with O'Day and Fields, both of whom have a closer rating of C2.

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 427257/512 (Day turns fatigued after allowing a single after he cashed down his two outs)

http://onlinegames.strat-o-matic.com/ga ... 426946/762 (Fields remains fresh after allowing two singles and then registering his three outs (did not allow any single or walk after his two outs, hence he remained fresh).

Notice that Fields remained fresh after his second out (despite allowing two previous hits/singles). After his second out, his closer rating was down to zero, so he got into the vulnerability zone, but it was not enacted (he remained F9) because he didn't allow any hit or walk after that second out.

Hmm, does this mean John does not fully understand how the closer function works?
If employees of Strat cannot accurately predict how the rules are coded/enforced what hope do the rest of us have?

Also interesting, I give up 2 hits and then get 2 outs and I am not fatigued. I get 2 outs and then give up a hit and I am fatigued. Same amount of work but ..... Just seems odd.

When in doubt, always ask Marc!!!!

Hmm, does this mean John does not fully understand how the closer function works?
If employees of Strat cannot accurately predict how the rules are coded/enforced what hope do the rest of us have

I give John a tip of the hat for writing down how the game is currently being played. It was probably not easy to recognize that C0 are being used just like N-closer, despite what the rules say. Clearly, somebody forgot to implement the rule in the online coding. That will not be the first time, though. A few guys wrote in another post that players with 680 PA+ are never injured despite having an injury risk---seems like it was not possible to implement the "only for the game" for any dice roll in this category.