GB/FB stats on the Misc team page - what's a fly ball? GB?

I'm playing in a mystery league. Occasionally, I look at the GB FB stats to see if it sheds some clear light on what card a player has. Sometimes it does shed some light on it, although I would never use that as a way to determine a player's card identity all by itself, without some other corroborating stats to help, or injury info.

But it got me curious as to what's included in each type of "out".

I looked at the stats for a SP who has only one start so far, and only 1 game played. He pitched 6 innings. Of the 18 outs, one was on a sacrifice bunt, and the other was an outfield assist. He allowed 8 base hits - 5 singles, 2 doubles and 1 homerun. As it happens, he had no strikeouts, which removes one variable from the question.

Of the outs (other than the OF assist and the sac bunt), there was 1 popout, 1 lineout, 1 foulout, 5 flyouts, and 1 sac fly. There was also 7 groundouts. 16 outs, plus an OF assist and a sac bunt makes 18 outs, equals 6 IP.

The stat page shows 13 Gb and 12 FB.

The problem is that there are only 8 groundouts (including the sac bunt), and there are only 9 flyouts (incl popouts, lineouts and foulouts), compared to the stat page with 13 GBs and 12 flyballs.

It seems to me that the way to reconcile this is to assume that strat treats all singles as groundballs, and all extra base hits as flyballs. That would make the math work, and the stat page "right".

Has anyone else considered this, or know the answer?

It's not about outs. It's about where the ball ends up

single (c) or single (1b) (which usually come from the X-CHART): count 1 for the infield

single(lf) (coming from the cards or from outfield's X-CHART): count 1 for the outfield

Pop Out (SS) count one for the infield

Home Run (RF): count one for the outfield...

Not too sure about assists and doubleplays, whether they count for one or two...

Thanks Marc!

gbrookes:

I was bumming around the General Strategy thread and saw your post. This is what I wrote in another thread: How to check pitching numbers for fly balls/ground balls

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=637064

There's going to be more to include on this topic, but FWIW I asked SOM for the official line on how G/F are ruled in the recording made by the game's Sim Misc tab. I haven't heard back yet, so having a team only nine games into the season, I went ahead and did my own analysis. I can report with 100% certainty the following:

All bunts (sac and sqz) are ruled GB (incl only to say they are in fact recorded at all).
All singles are ruled as GB.
All ground outs, ground out double plays, force plays and infield errors are ruled GB.
All doubles, triples and home runs are ruled as FB.
All fly outs, line outs, foul outs and pop outs are ruled as FB.

I did not have a case of an outfield error made, but I would guess it would be a FB.

The big thing to take away here is that what SOM told me previously, that singles are randomized, does not appear to be correct. ALL singles are ruled as GB. So for any imagination dragons out there, there are no bloop FB that drop in for a single. Every single is a GB "with eyes".

I can report with 100% certainty the following:

All bunts (sac and sqz) are ruled GB (incl only to say they are in fact recorded at all).
All singles are ruled as GB.

That would mean that all lineouts and foul outs are FB, if we follow the 2 games from Pomeranz, who stands at 13 GB and 14 FB. Is that what you get too?

TOP OF INNING 1
0 D.Stubbs 2-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 T.Tulowitzki 3-3 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 A.Rios 2-5 Triple (CF) 1-H b-3 F9
1 3 A.Rizzo 1-11 Ground Out (SS) 3-H b-0 F9
2 M.Prado 6-7 Strike Out b-0 F9
TOP OF INNING 2
0 D.Espinosa 6-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 F.Cervelli 1-8 Ground Out (3B) b-0 F9
2 B.Holt 2-5 Double (CF) b-2 F9
2 2 C.Dickerson 4-11 Fly Out (RF) b-0 bpHR 1 F9
TOP OF INNING 3
0 D.Stubbs 1-4 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 T.Tulowitzki 5-3 Fly Out (RF) b-0 fly(RF)x F9
2 A.Rios 3-5 Ground Out (P) b-0 F9
TOP OF INNING 4
0 A.Rizzo 4-9 Home Run (CF) b-H F9
0 M.Prado 1-6 Double (CF) b-2 F9
0 2 D.Espinosa 3-6 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 2 F.Cervelli 3-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
2 2 B.Holt 6-7 Walk b-1 F9
2 12 C.Dickerson 4-9 Home Run (CF) 2-H 1-H b-H F9
2 D.Stubbs 3-6 Single (CF) b-1 F9

BOTTOM OF INNING 1
0 B.Revere 6-6 Strike Out b-0 F9
1 I.Suzuki 5-4 Foul Out (C) b-0 catch-x F9
2 C.Johnson 2-2 Line Out (2B) b-0 F9
BOTTOM OF INNING 2
0 D.Span 1-7 Single (LF) b-1 F9
Caught Stealing 1-o F9
1 L.Cain 6-8 Walk b-1 F9
1 1 J.Panik 2-10 Single (RF) 1-3 b-1 F9
1 1 3 A.Simmons 6-12 Single (1B) 3-H 1-3 b-1 gb(1B)x F9
1 1 3 J.Arias 4-8 Line Out (3B) b-0 F9
2 1 3 C.Bethancourt 2-5 Single (LF) 3-H 1-2 b-1 F9
2 12 B.Revere 6-9 Fly Out (RF) b-0 bpHR 1-10 F9
BOTTOM OF INNING 3
0 I.Suzuki 1-2 Line Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 C.Johnson 5-10 Ground Out (SS) b-0 gb(SS)x F9
2 D.Span 1-8 Single (RF) b-1 F9
2 1 L.Cain 4-9 Fly Out (LF) b-0 F9
BOTTOM OF INNING 4
0 J.Panik 4-10 Ground Out (2B) b-0 F9
1 A.Simmons 4-4 Fly Out (CF) b-0 fly(CF)x F9
2 J.Arias 6-5 Strike Out b-0 F9
BOTTOM OF INNING 5
0 C.Bethancourt 1-5 Ground Out (SS) b-0 F9
1 B.Revere 4-8 Single (CF) b-1 F9

6 ground outs + 7 singles


5 fly outs
1 foul out
3 line outs
5 extra base hits

Yes.

I do want to be sure we're talking apples to apples, though. I am going strictly by how GB/FB are being recorded for the hitters in the Sim Misc tab under hitters only, in the online game.

I did not do a corresponding confirmation on the pitchers side, I just made the assumption they were the same.

Also, to be clear, I have no idea if Fangraphs, ESPN, etc have a consistent and "official" definition for what is a Flyball and what is a Groundball. For instance, if Adam Dunn hits a 390 foot Flyball in real life that lands on the wall and is quickly returned to second base, holding him to a single, I do not know if the stats agencies actually mark that as a Flyball. I would guess they do, but it's only a guess. I don't even know how a routine drive over the infielder's head is ruled.

Having said that, when Adam Dunn gets to first base in SOM Online, if the result read "single", then it is recorded for the hitter under the Sim Misc tab as a Groundball.

So how the SOM Online definition and the real life stats agencies' definition correlate is probably less than perfect, but the online game version still provides you information (i.e., a proxy for SLG) that is useful.

Hope that clarifies!

Jose Abreu

Fangraphs 2014 season: 1.46 GB/FB
ESPN.go 2014 season: 0.90 GB/FB
Last SOM Online season: 1.60 GB/FB

For whatever that might be worth...!