NEW, NEW 24 Team Keeper League Forming.

I understand.

I just think it makes more sense to force owners to cut/promote players once they are carded. That way no one can stash active players on their prospect roster.

Forcing owners to cut prospects who have not been carded after 2 years could have a trickle down effect on roster spots, it also discourages anyone from drafting young players since very few prospects make it through the minors in 2 years. If a team makes an investment ( in draft picks) why should they lose the value of the pick after an arbitrary amount of time?

I don't really see the counter argument is my point.

And I don't want to speak for Cal, but that is how I interpret his comments.

You interpret correctly. I feel the same way. As long as you are willing to devote a prospect roster spot to a player that hasn't earned a card, my preference is that we be able to keep them in our prospect list. Prospect draft picks certainly have less value if they are a two year gamble. Look at a guy like Byron Buxton who has used up more than two years of 'top prospect' status to finally earn a card. By these rules, if you had drafted him pre-2013 when he was rated #10 by Baseball America, you would have had to cut him before he ever got a chance to play for you.

I am not sure I understand the logic behind wanting to limit uncarded prospect ownership to two years, but if someone cares to explain why it is a good thing, I will hear you out. Otherwise, I'd be happy to craft a proposed rule change for a vote before we draft.

The reason I agree with the two year rule is because I think it leads to more strategy vis a vis the prospects. In terms of your Buxton example, Byron was a good enough prospect that I think anyone would have promoted him to their big league roster at the expense of a lesser major leaguer. But for more fringy prospects, it becomes a real question. Do I "waste" a spot on my roster for this guy who has a lot of potential but is only in AA, or do I discard him and hope he doesn't amount to anything? I think it's these types of strategy decisions that make keeper leagues so great, whereas if you can keep prospects forever, there's not the same urgency about deciding what to do with them. Just my take.

Just so that I am straight... you can promote an uncarded player to your roster... so you wouldn't necessarily lose all rights to a prospect just because he isn't carded in two years' time...??

Just so that I am straight... you can promote an uncarded player to your roster... so you wouldn't necessarily lose all rights to a prospect just because he isn't carded in two years' time...??

Yes. After two years prospects need to be promoted or cut regardless of whether they have a card yet.

I am in a league like this. MLKL

You either promote the prospect to your ML roster or you have to cut him after 2 years.

However that is a 12 team league with 40 man rosters and 10 man prospect rosters, so there is quite a bit of extra space. And you cut down to 30 players prior to the FA draft, not 20.

I understand your point as well Lev.cohen. Those are the decisions that make Keeper leagues fun. But with only 6 prospects/team, you are going to be forced into those decisions anyway.

on a different note, how close are way to beginning the initial draft?

plan to start shortly after the new cards drop

unless there is a groundswell to start sooner...

for now I would like folks to look over rules to see if we left anything out ....
and send me email info etc to further communication as we get this thing going...

I am strongly in favor of beginning the draft as soon as possible....now would be great. I didn't know I signed up for a league/draft that wasn't beginning for another 3-4 weeks. I'd say definitely start the draft now. It's a keeper league so not just based on what their cards are for this year (plus the ratings disk is out to get that info anyway). we can all look up how the players did last year on baseball-reference as well. so.....I'd like to vote to get the draft rolling.

Just so that I am straight... you can promote an uncarded player to your roster... so you wouldn't necessarily lose all rights to a prospect just because he isn't carded in two years' time...??

yes the rule states that after 2 years the player must be promoted or cut.
For example you have 2 guys for 2 years
Dylan Bundy and Lucas Giolito
you have to decide what to do with them cut them or take up a roster spot.....
If you cut Dylan Bundy he'd go to FA pool as he has played in the major league
while if you cut Lucas Giolito he'd be in prospect pool again and subject to prospect draft and a new 2 year clock.

on a different note, how close are way to beginning the initial draft?

plan to start shortly after the new cards drop

unless there is a groundswell to start sooner...

for now I would like folks to look over rules to see if we left anything out ....
and send me email info etc to further communication as we get this thing going...

I am strongly in favor of beginning the draft as soon as possible....now would be great. I didn't know I signed up for a league/draft that wasn't beginning for another 3-4 weeks. I'd say definitely start the draft now. It's a keeper league so not just based on what their cards are for this year (plus the ratings disk is out to get that info anyway). we can all look up how the players did last year on baseball-reference as well. so.....I'd like to vote to get the draft rolling.

I am in favor of starting early too but lets give it a day or two so I can gather email and folks have a chance to look at the rules...

I am OK with starting the draft ASAP.

As far as prospect rules go, I think limiting the prospect roster to 6 really has the same effect as putting a two year clock on, especially with a 4 round prospect draft. Effectively, if you have Buxton and Bogaerts in your minors for a few years, they effectively force you to clean house of anybody else who hasn't been carded every year until they do get carded.

And realistically, nobody's going to carry more than 3 or 4 uncarded players on their active roster anyway, since that would limit flexibility to deal with injuries during the season.

Also we should put a clock on when a prospect must be signed by. Last year, I was in a league where a guy waited and waited with his first round pick so he could draft Moncada as soon as he signed. I suggest using the day of the first ML vs. ML exhibition game as the cutoff date, if the guy hasn't officially signed by that date according to the MLB transactions page, then he's not eligible.

Finally, increasing the roster size that you cut to from 20 to 25 is not the answer either since 24 team leagues with 20 keepers per team have notoriously thin draft pools anyway.

I am OK with starting the draft ASAP.

As far as prospect rules go, I think limiting the prospect roster to 6 really has the same effect as putting a two year clock on, especially with a 4 round prospect draft. Effectively, if you have Buxton and Bogaerts in your minors for a few years, they effectively force you to clean house of anybody else who hasn't been carded every year until they do get carded.

And realistically, nobody's going to carry more than 3 or 4 uncarded players on their active roster anyway, since that would limit flexibility to deal with injuries during the season.

Also we should put a clock on when a prospect must be signed by. Last year, I was in a league where a guy waited and waited with his first round pick so he could draft Moncada as soon as he signed. I suggest using the day of the first ML vs. ML exhibition game as the cutoff date, if the guy hasn't officially signed by that date according to the MLB transactions page, then he's not eligible.

Finally, increasing the roster size that you cut to from 20 to 25 is not the answer either since 24 team leagues with 20 keepers per team have notoriously thin draft pools anyway.

I agree with all of these points. If our keeper limit is just 20, roster size is 30, our prospect roster is maxed at 6, and prospects must be promoted once carded, there won't be very many prospects staying on rosters longer than 2 years. But then the drafter who does invest in a longer term prospect isn't penalized when their development is slower than expected. The 2 year limit makes more sense in a league with larger keeper limits. I just don't think we will have a problem with weak draft pools with keeper caps at 20/6.

If there is significant support for changing the prospect 2-year limit rule, I hope everyone will make it known before we start drafting so we can write a rule change and take a vote. A change in the rule would likely impact my draft strategy.

Definitely our league needs to put a date on locking a player's prospect status. Once we start our draft, no newly signed prospects/imports should be eligible for the draft, out of fairness to all.

I am OK with starting the draft ASAP.

As far as prospect rules go, I think limiting the prospect roster to 6 really has the same effect as putting a two year clock on, especially with a 4 round prospect draft. Effectively, if you have Buxton and Bogaerts in your minors for a few years, they effectively force you to clean house of anybody else who hasn't been carded every year until they do get carded.

And realistically, nobody's going to carry more than 3 or 4 uncarded players on their active roster anyway, since that would limit flexibility to deal with injuries during the season.

Also we should put a clock on when a prospect must be signed by. Last year, I was in a league where a guy waited and waited with his first round pick so he could draft Moncada as soon as he signed. I suggest using the day of the first ML vs. ML exhibition game as the cutoff date, if the guy hasn't officially signed by that date according to the MLB transactions page, then he's not eligible.

Finally, increasing the roster size that you cut to from 20 to 25 is not the answer either since 24 team leagues with 20 keepers per team have notoriously thin draft pools anyway.

I agree with all of these points. If our keeper limit is just 20, roster size is 30, our prospect roster is maxed at 6, and prospects must be promoted once carded, there won't be very many prospects staying on rosters longer than 2 years. But then the drafter who does invest in a longer term prospect isn't penalized when their development is slower than expected. The 2 year limit makes more sense in a league with larger keeper limits. I just don't think we will have a problem with weak draft pools with keeper caps at 20/6.

If there is significant support for changing the prospect 2-year limit rule, I hope everyone will make it known before we start drafting so we can write a rule change and take a vote. A change in the rule would likely impact my draft strategy.

Definitely our league needs to put a date on locking a player's prospect status. Once we start our draft, no newly signed prospects/imports should be eligible for the draft, out of fairness to all.

I added the prospect signing time limit to date we start the FA draft
which as soon as all check in as ok with rules and send me their emails will begin following a random number thingy....

send me your emails gents
rharrington@dallasisd.org