Rogers Hornsby

Druid's latest last place team: http://365.strat-o-matic.com/team/1421235

The debate about past stars versus current stars will rage on forever.

Jack Nicklaus gave an interview when he was in his early 60's. He was asked what he thought about the current crop of professionals being able to hit the golf ball so much farther then in his day. Jack simply stated, despite my age, my bad hip and a back that makes it difficult to bend over, I hit the golf ball every bit as far now as I did when I was 30.
Think about that statement Mr. Brown.

My take on this topic: things change but talent doesn't.

Hmm--
this has certainly turned into a bizaare thread.

First of all Radagast-- to conflate someone's preference of baseball era with racism is a bit of a stretch.
Especially if they include the NeL guys in that era. I dont like at all the disingenuousness of that argument.

Second of all-- 'this PC crap' yeah, okay, maybe sometimes things are a bit overdone.
Well, wouldn't it be nice to just live in a society where you can say whatever is on your mind--unfortunately thats never been how it is.
It doesnt diminish you to be aware of the fact that some words are offensive to others-- ITS OKAY-- REALLY-- YOUR LIFE IS NOT WORSE OFF FOR IT.

I came to read about Hornsby and ended up in a Republican debate.

I thought the exact same thing.
The posting of someone's team three games into the season seems Truppist.

Maxie

Baseball is played by billions of people in Latin America, America, Canada, Asia and many other places. The player pool from the 1800s was a few thousand people, now it is over a couple hundred billion. You do the math...

Yes, I posted the latest Last Druid last place team three games into the season because I have had it with his bully tactics. I ask him a question about rules and he insults me very personally and then tells me, "You don't need to know the rules you have no chance to compete"... Enough said on that front, or it should be....

As to Scorehose's exclamation about "PC Crap" I still have not gotten an answer to what PC crap? Seriously what does he mean?

As to people taking it personally that I am pointing out that the players from the 1800s would have virtually no chance making today's triple A teams I have no answer for why they got so mad. I guess they don't like their boyhood heroes knocked down a peg, really I have no idea... Cheers!

The player pool from the 1800s was a few thousand people, now it is over a couple hundred billion. You do the math...

The World Population Clock did the math, and at the present moment, the world's total human population is just over 7.4 billion people.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

BTW, I think Rogers Hornsby was a really great player, but not such a great manager. One of the curious moves in Cub history was to fire Joe McCarthy at the end of the 1930 season and replace him with Rajah. That gave the Yankees the opportunity to scoop up Joe, and the rest is history.
McCarthy managed the Yanks for most of the next 16 seasons, winning eight pennants and seven World Series while posting a .627 w/l pct. Hornsby lasted less than 2 full seasons with the Cubs, then went on to preside over six years of sub-mediocrity with the Browns (.401 w/l).

Not to fan the flames here but I don't mind Druid's last place team. I could play with that roster, me thinks the final resting place will not be in the cellar... he spanks left handed pitchers...

Radagast,

Nothing you say about the racism in the system of baseball in the early years of the game is wrong...far from it. Borderline white players would have had their jobs in jeopardy had the leagues been integrated (or perhaps there would have been even more teams as both the pool of players and the pool of fans would have been larger). There were also forms of discrimination in those early years, especially against Native Americans and the Irish (though by no means am I equating them with the discrimination against African-Americans). I think what gets many of us slightly irritated is the reiteration of your argument (which again is more than valid). Most of us agree with your point. Now let's move on ... and find a way to get more African-American young people interested in playing the game of baseball today.

Bill

PS You might want to reconsider having Tip O'Neill on your unlimited squad (the one in the league with Petro). I just found this in a book called "A Sporting Chance: Achievements of African-Canadian Athletes".

There are many examples of Canadians in other sports welcoming the opportunity to play against Black athletes, but the white Canadian baseball establishment was either ambivalent or actively opposed. In 1887, James "Tip" O'Neill from Woodstock, Ontario, and the greatest Canadian ballplayer of the 19th century, came down firmly on the side of segregation. He was the ringleader of his St. Louis Browns' teammates in petitioning club owner Chris Von Der Ahe, against playing an exhibition game with the all-black Cuban Giants.

It read, "We the undersigned, do not agree to play against Negroes tomorrow. We will cheerfully play against white people at any time, and think by refusing to play, we are only doing what is right, taking everything into consideration, and the shape the team is in at present."

His attitude was unfortunately typical for Irish immigrants at the time (at least in the US) who found someone lower on the social hierarchy than themselves.

Again, it's hard, without resorting to uchronia or alternative histories, to deny a particularly somber past. Face it we must, but, as I tell my students, we need to use history to try to ask the right questions today so we don't repeat those or similar mistakes.

As usual George Bernard sums it up beautifully .

George Bernard wrote :

Nothing you say about the racism in the system of baseball in the early years of the game is wrong...far from it. Borderline white players would have had their jobs in jeopardy had the leagues been integrated (or perhaps there would have been even more teams as both the pool of players and the pool of fans would have been larger). There were also forms of discrimination in those early years, especially against Native Americans and the Irish (though by no means am I equating them with the discrimination against African-Americans). I think what gets many of us slightly irritated is the reiteration of your argument (which again is more than valid). Most of us agree with your point. Now let's move on ... and find a way to get more African-American young people interested in playing the game of baseball today.

Thank you. It is hard to believe some people do not understand these basic points and the math behind how small the player pool was compared to today.....

I am more than ready to move on. Now if I could just get the ironically named, Last Druid to stop digging 20 years into my past and posting it on the Strat-O-Matic forum boards... Yes, I did go to prison for possessing an illegal plant, but no I am not ashamed of it and I fail to see what it has to do with any of this...One last thing, if the fellas who don't like "PC Crap" could point out this politically correct crap they are referring to, maybe we could get that language banned. Cheers!