A better way for 12 team leagues?

Moderator: Palmtana

Are you in favor of an additional option of two six-team divisions in 12 team leagues?

Poll ended at Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:19 pm

Yes
32
58%
No
16
29%
Maybe
6
11%
No opinion
1
2%
 
Total votes : 55

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supertyphoon

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A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostWed Jun 01, 2016 7:19 pm

I was going to send a request to the SOM 365 management folks to ask them if it would be possible to offer a second option for 12 team leagues, namely two divisions of six teams in addition to the standard three division format. But first I'd like to see if there is a groundswell of support for such a request.

The reasons I think they should consider adding a second option for 12-team leagues are as follows:

1) It is more historically accurate. When the leagues expanded to 12 teams each in 1969, they had two six-team divisions. Even when the AL went to 14 teams in 1977 and the NL followed suit much later in 1993, they continued to use a two division setup with the division winners advancing to the LCS. The advent of 3 divisions per league did not occur until 1994, when both leagues had 14 teams and a wild card team was added. This 25-year period, where the division winners met in the LCS with the winners advancing to the world series, is the way most of us (aged 50+) fondly remember the playoffs as kids and young adults. All I'm saying is, if we have 12 teams the precedent is to split leagues into two divisions, not three.

2) It adds value to the achievement of winning your division, and eliminates the possibility of a weak wild card team sneaking in and stealing a championship away from either of the two teams who proved they deserve it more over the course of a full 162-game season, simply by getting hot in the playoffs. This is what I like best about the 6-team leagues, but the main reason they aren't more popular is many of us don't like the measly single credit awarded to the league winner. In this proposed format, both division winners automatically earn a credit and meet each other in the world series for a shot at earning a second credit, for a total of 3 credits awarded per 12-team league, same as now.

3) There is the perfect symmetry of a truly balanced 162 game schedule, which is not the case in any of the other types of leagues; 6-team, 12-team or 24-team are all unbalanced in one way or another. Current 12-team leagues play 24 games against 3 division opponents (12 home, 12 away) = 72 games, and either 9 or 12 games against the eight other teams, 2x9 plus 6x12 = 90 games. In a 12-team league of two divisions, teams play 18 games versus 5 division opponents (9 home, 9 away) = 90 games, and 12 games against the other 6 teams (6 home, 6 away) = 72 games. I think 90 games in division and 72 outside is the best mix to determine which two teams should meet in the finals.

As for disadvantages, some would argue it reduces the chances of making the playoffs by taking away the wild card. That is true, and there is a risk managers would lose interest quicker if they feel there isn't a reasonable chance at catching the first place team in their division. If anyone feels that way, they could continue playing the current format. I'm suggesting another option, not replacing what we currently have. The second disadvantage is, what about the two best teams in the league being in the same division? My argument for that goes back to being historically accurate. Sometimes the second best team misses out because they couldn't win their division. It happened a few times in the big leagues from 1969 to 1993, so it could happen here as well. That's the way the game was played. It may not be "fair" in that case, but each division winner deserves to be there by taking care of business against their 5 divisional opponents.

So I'll post a poll to gauge if there is enough sentiment in favor of this proposal before I (we) submit it to SOM.
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rburgh

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostThu Jun 02, 2016 11:43 am

Why not have the best of both worlds and have both division runners-up play the division winners from the other division in the first round of the playoffs?

That also cures the unbalanced division issue - if one division is stacked and the other not, both playoff qualifiers from the stacked division have a shot at the ring.
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rburgh

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostThu Jun 02, 2016 11:45 am

Also, why not just fix the unbalanced schedule issue (in both 12 and 24 team leagues) by simply going to a 168 game regular season. Who says we can't do that? Now in 12-team leagues,

24 X 3 + 12 x 8 = (72 + 96) = 168.

In 24 team leagues,

12 x 3 + 20 x 6 = (48 + 120) = 168.
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hackra

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostThu Jun 02, 2016 1:06 pm

I like the historic bent on 2 divisions, but why not a different balance.

24 games against division opponents (12 home, 12 away) 5 teams = 120 games

then a single home/road series against the other division 6 teams 6 games = 36 games

156 game season (in the time frame you referenced, there was NOT a 162 game season)

It gives a little room for games between divisions, but the competition is really in your division.

OR

we can set it up like a true 2 league competition.
30 games against your league (15 home,15 away) = 150 games
Then we could get a small taste of inter-league play with 4 series vs. the other league (one home and away against a random 2 teams from the other league) = 12 games

Personally, I love the 2 league concept with minimal inter-league play
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FALCON29

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostThu Jun 02, 2016 2:37 pm

hackra wrote:156 game season (in the time frame you referenced, there was NOT a 162 game season)

Both leagues have been playing 162 game seasons since 1961. Except of course for seasons shortened by labor disputes.
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JohnnyBlazers

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostFri Jun 03, 2016 8:22 pm

Having two divisions in a 12 team league would not guarantee that the top two teams would make the finals. You could have one division with 3-4 teams with better records than the top team in the other division. The wild card in the three division set-up at least allows for a team with a good record that may be better than two other divisions to get in the playoffs. You should not be penalized for having a better season than a division winner. I could see the purist argument and SOM should at least allow for that feature for a 12, 10, 8 team set-up, with or without divisions. Players want to compete but at the same time you are giving away credits that would otherwise be available via a wild card
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FALCON29

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostSat Jun 04, 2016 8:49 am

JohnnyBlazers wrote:Having two divisions in a 12 team league would not guarantee that the top two teams would make the finals. You could have one division with 3-4 teams with better records than the top team in the other division. The wild card in the three division set-up at least allows for a team with a good record that may be better than two other divisions to get in the playoffs. You should not be penalized for having a better season than a division winner. I could see the purist argument and SOM should at least allow for that feature for a 12, 10, 8 team set-up, with or without divisions. Players want to compete but at the same time you are giving away credits that would otherwise be available via a wild card

You make very good points, and as you stated it should at least be an option, since that's the way baseball was played for 25 years.
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Ursoid

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostSat Jun 04, 2016 1:42 pm

I like this idea as proposed, and also think it would be a good option when doubled for 24 team leagues - essentially play two 12 team leagues in tandem - none of this interleague play nonsense - then playoffs for each 12 team league and a world series between the top teams. Actually, I'd like to see a 16 team format playing 2 divisions and 154 games, but that won't allow a season of only 3 game series so it's a pipe dream.
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Valen

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostFri Jun 10, 2016 2:31 pm

Main problem I see with this added as an option is it is just one more way to spread out the available owners across additional leagues. End result even longer to fill the average league.
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supertyphoon

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Re: A better way for 12 team leagues?

PostMon Jul 04, 2016 1:55 pm

Last chance to vote before I pass the results on to the top brass.
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