Favorite Value Guys

(fyi I originally posted this under "General Strategy" but someone right;y suggested I post it here)

As I play more and more I find myself going back to a similar crop of "value guys" to fill out my roster around a rotating crop of stars. I'm interested in hearing who some of you have become attached to using over time. If we're not too afraid of revealing our secrets, it could lead to an interesting discussion.

Here are some of my comments on guys I find interesting within certain salary ranges. I focus mostly on guys below $3m but I start with a few relatively highly priced guys. Who I'm NOT including are lefty and right specialists - I'm looking at you, Garman, Clear, Burgomeier, Shirley, et al. - who I always end up regretting.

$7-$8m:

Eddie Mathews - his $8m card seems like one of the highest used across all leagues.

Albert Belle - his offense + his injury rating makes his $7m card feel like a steal (defense notwithstanding)

Doug Pfister - everyone seems to love this guy. I've been experimenting with 5-man rotations recently to try him out

Joe Kelley - no injuries, lots of extra base hits, crap defense

Don Mattingly - I like his $7.52m card a lot - no injury, great defense, pretty productive offensively.

Prince Fielder - no injury, good power, balanced vs. L or R, defense could be worse (4e7). I seem to like him more than others since he's often available.

$6-$7m:

Pudge Rodriguez - love him in Minute Maid, hate him in most other ballparks

Dolph Camillo - provides defense and a little power at 1b, and a lefty bat that can hit lefties

Matt Williams - injury is a killer, but if he's healthy he's worth millions more. I want him on my team. I need him on my team.

$5-$6m

Reggie Jackson and Ben Oglive - everybody loves these guys! Oglive has a better injury rating.

Eddie Plank and Big Bill Foster - my favorite SP*'s in this salary range

Jessie Burkett - no injury, good range, good batting average

Gates Brown - needs no introduction. I've finally started drafting him just out of peer pressure.

Manny Ramirez - his 5.56m is my favorite card in this range. Low injury rating and you can pencil him in for 40 2bs and 45 hrs.

$4m-$5m

Tommy Davis - another apparent favorite of many - I always need to rank this guy highly if I want him on my roster

Earl Combs - almost always taken - great range in CF and good offensive production

Wally Berger - a platoon guy, but good range and production in CF

Chet Lemon - almost never use him - he's a platoon guy vs. L and you need lots of lefties in your league to justify his salary, but I'm always hoping for a league with lots of lefties I can use him in!

$3m-$4m

Johnny Blanchard - platoon guy, doesn't totally kill you defensively at C, rakes.

Reggie Jackson - people seem to love his 3.84m card, though I'm not so sure

Bill Byrd - an SP* who can hit - decent back of the rotation option for non-Dh leagues in a righty ballpark (lefties kill him)

Mickey Stanley - great defense in CF, bad but not utterly pathetic offense. I use him when I'm feeling defense guilt, although his 3.3m feels a little pricey.

Kal Daniels - terrible D, but GREAT platoon guy vs. R

Now it gets more interesting. . .

$2m-$3m

Dan Johnson - the choice of millions of managers in righty ballparks for 2b. I don't love him but can't help myself from using him again and again. That 2.45m can get you 50 bombs, but his defense will kill you.

Kelly Johnson - the value 2b of choice in lefty ballparks. we need to ask ourselves if 4e10 at 2B is worth it for 20-25hrs.

Larry Bowa - everyone is apparently freaking obsessed with Bowa's 2.87m card. How high do I have to rank a guy who can't hit to get him on my damn team?!

Ad Liska - I've been addicted to him in the bullpen. At 2.02m a pretty good option, but he's been killing me on recent teams and I might be inflating his value after getting a few good seasons from him.

Luis Arroyo - how many of us try to make him our "poor man's Bruce Sutter"? 2/3 the performance for half the price!

Don McMahon - can also get you lots of good innings in relief without breaking the bank.

Hank Robinson - that R5 has seduced many a manager, including me, trying for that imaginary team that has a good but inexpensive bullpen. He hasn't totally paid off for me yet.

Joe Sambito - everyone seems to want Sambito's 2.21m card although I've never given it a whirl.

Dizzy Trout - I have a compulsion to include his 2.29m card in my 4-man rotation in non-Dh leagues (he can hit). I noticed him because he seemed to be getting a lot of use from other managers. Probably the best SP* in this range but you still can't really put lipstick on a pig with starting pitching.

Al McBean - been just getting into him and trying to decide if I like him more than Liska.

Ken Phelps - great production in HR ballparks. Crap defense at 1b, but possibly worth it.

Phil Bradley - very attractive at 2.98m as a platoon option at any OF position. Good defense, hits well enough.

Phil Weintraub - a popular platoon choice as a lead-off hitter, but his defense is frightening.

$1m-$2m

Mike Kreevich/Doc Cramer - a CF platoon with decent defense and not completely embarrassing offense at cut rate prices!

Matt Nokes - Matt, ooooh Matt. Everybody just looooves Matt. I used never to go near him, but he's hit enough bombs off of me that I started incorporating him into my lefty teams, and it makes me feel funny inside. He can give you 40hrs for 1.74m, but I have also had him surrender over a dozen SBs in a single game multiple times. Once you start paying so little for HRs it's hard to get off of it, but I need to scale back the whole Nokesy thing.

Steve Nicosia - everyone's favorite cheap platoon catcher vs. L. I've used the Blanchard/Nicosia platoon many a time my friends, many a time. Nicosia can be decent or horrible, but I prefer that platoon to the aforementioned, but cheaper, Matty Nokes.

Sparky Adams - I love Sparky! Great defense at 2b (2e4), low injury rating, can bunt and hit and run. For 1.63m you can just put him at 2b and go spend your money elsewhere.

Doc Crandall, Lee Smith, Gene Packard - these are the relievers I use when I try to find the imaginary land of a good bullpen without spending money on it.

Dave Giusti - his 1.78m card is hugely popular. Have only just started ranking him high enough to get him so I can see if he's more fun than the 3 guys above.

Ron Gant - have never used this 1.42m man (a 4 range in Cf is too much for me), but he's popular and seems to bring a bang for his buck. I'm intrigued.

Bill H Robinson - good platoon option vs L, pretty good defense, great price at 1.65m

Dummy Taylor - at 1.07m, an R5 mopup guy who won't usually blow an 8-run lead

Mark Brouhard - I use the Daniels/Brouhard platoon so often I'm surprised it doesn't autofill when I start a roster.

Bob Knepper - a popular back of the rotation SP* at 1.7m. Will occasionally mix in a start where he doesn't get slaughtered.

Tommy Byrne - see Knepper, Bob, but he's 1.65m and can hit

Orval Grove - see Knepper, Bob, but he's at 1.38m

Under $1m

Paul Erickson - an evenly balanced R5 at .77m who can eat innings and who might occasionally not blow a 5 run lead

Bill Fleming - see Erickson, Paul, but is much, much worse

Harold Baines - nice lefty hitter at .83m

Jim Fregosi - some righty power at .87m. Is my backup for an injured Matt Williams when I'm desperate.

Red Kress - great pinch hitting value at .78m. Good clutch rating.

Bob Thurman - cannot bear to not have him on my roster. For .73m, best HR potential vs righties at anything near the price. Good enough to platoon at DH as a starter. Having him win a game with a pinch hit home run is a fun and not infrequent occurrence.

Tony Phillips - good OBP vs L at .94m and can play many positions (poorly). See him used a lot but when I've tried him he hasn't been productive.

Alan Wiggins - Had quite a love affair with his .68m card for a while. Good value for a platoon vs. L at 2B, but his defense sucks.

Wally Backman - a couple of decent sub 1m cards for good ol' Wally. I like the Backman/Wiggins platoon at 2B if I want some cheap production there and don't care about defense.

$.50m - the true bargain basement guys

Ruthven, Lerch, Leal, etc. What is more beautiful than a .5m SP on your roster with no reliever rating? If you don't understand what I just wrote, then you have more about this game to discover!

Tom Lampkin - an e1 at C who can (sort of) hit righty pitching.

Frank Taveras - gotta rank Frank (relatively) highly if you want him! By far the best PR choice at a similar price.

Frank Isbell - can also PR (not as well), and has the plus that he plays virtually every position.

Billy Klaus - not a bad PH option vs L at .5m.

Charles Gipson - also need to rank this guy as few rungs up from the bottom to get him. Can't hit, but provides excellent defense at all 3 outfield position. Usable late-inning replacement and can keep your defense together through injuries.


Whew! That was fun. Any comments?

Great post. I will finish reading all your guys and try to add a few myself at some point.

I usually play in lower salary cap leagues ($60 - $80).
Some of my favorites cheap cards (in no particular order) -

.95 Hugh Duffy - OF - a 3 defender, but reliable DH with speed
1.54 Jim Clancy - SP* have a couple of no hitters with this card (1 in a $60 league, 1 in a $80 league)
1.46 Horacio Pina - 9R balance - solid v. righties
.50 Rick Wise - rounds out my SP requirement, 6R, righty specialist out of pen
1.53 Jose Canseco - good power, positive clutch
1.00 Jose Cruz - a lot of clutch hits
2.88 Jason Marquis - SP* - a lot of walks, but few HR rolls on card
1.00 Joe Sambito and/or Frank Dipino - great value lefty specailists
2.11 Hal Chase - 1B - solid defense, good BA and speed

Some other favs:

Honus Wagner 6.55m- next to impossible to draft after round 2 @ 100, 80 0r 60m
Kirby Higbe 3.74m- great value in bomber parks @ 80 or 60m
Ted Kluszewski 3.93m- xlnt in just about any type of park any cap and will rake in power parks as a LH platoon hitter
George H. Burns .77m- RH side of platoon, very good at 80 or 60, and passable at 100 in small ball parks
John Tamargo .98m- LH side of platoon catcher in bomber and lefty bomber parks, caveat you need 3 catchers, 1 as def replacement
Butch Henry, Rich Bordi, Donald Atley, Grover Lowdermilk all low budget starters for small ball parks @ 80 or 60m

I've used all of these guys sucessfully most of the time, among the others previously listed, just remember some guys are built to work in specific parks!

Mike

Only one from the original list I would argue is Joe Kelley - I've drafted him 3 times and dropped him midseason all 3 times when his OPS was sub .700.

Others -
Ping Bodie .57 CF - a great backup who is tough to get, not a great defender but hits well
Rob Piccolo (his 2L card) - most times doesn't hit at all, but a 3 defender at three positions for a nickel
Dutch Holland - a cheap DH platoon guy vs. lefties
Whitey Moore 2.48 - I've had reasonable "success" with him when I go complete bomber lineup and a cheap rotation
Cliff Chambers - another guy who gets killed less than others in his range if I'm trying to go really cheap on pitching and load up hitting
Cal Ripken 3.65 - doesn't walk, doesn't field well, 4 injury rating - but I've had some monster seasons from this card even after missing 20-30 games with injury

My favorite cheapie is Jose Cardenal at .58 as a DH platoon vs lefties, or just a bat off the bench.

Many many players on the initial list are good buys for dh-ing, sometimes great buys, but once you factor in defense, especially middle defense, I just can't see where is the bargain.

Take Gant, for example, I have him as a great bargain as a dh in a hitters park with a heay load of lefty pitching, truly great: in some settings, I have him in the top10 value all players confounded----with a big IF---only if he plays dh. But if you play him in centerfield, I estimate that he's gonna cost your team 20-25 runs over a baseline of cf-3e7(0), 40-45 runs compared to Devon White or 1.73M's Paul Blair card. Gant has roughly the same onbase than Blair, I just can't see how Gant can provide 45 offensive more runs than Paul Blair--can Gant really hit 32 MORE homeruns than Blair? Besides, unless you are playing in a special league, Gant is likely to hit down in the lineup---if he hits 7th or 8th in the batting order, he'll be missing at-bats to cover his defensive foes, and his offensive impact will be less useful anyway, so it just doesn't make sense to me to start him in cf. Same argument for other guys like K.Johnson. I would say that D. Johnson is borderline because he's a 3.

For players that play in left field or first base, I can make sense of using a bad fielder, but I feel more at ease if the player has a very important spot in the batting order, say in the top 4 spots, or if I'm using a platoon. Kelley's in a pitcher's park makes a lot of sense to me as a leadoff, and his defense will only cost 3-5 runs or so compared to a baseline of 3e7(0).

Phelps's defense is a bit worse-he'll cost around 10-12 runs compared to a 1b-3e8, and I don't find his numbers go enough in most 80M-100M leagues to have him hit cleanup--he could maybe hit 5th in some weaker teams, because of his clutch. But if I'm looking for a first baseman who would hit 6th or 7th without spending more than 3M in a lefty ballpark, Mayberry's 2.62M card (adequate defense, similar onbase, a bit less power) or Norm Cash's 2.79 card (adequate defense, similar power, but a bit less onbase) make more sense to me.

Thus, while many players on that list look great in my ratings--as dh--I would be cautious to use them as everyday players taking the field.

A few other non-dh players on this list that look really good in my ratings : Tommy Davis, Arroyo, Bradley, Sambito's 2.21M card...

...and a few others that don't look good at all in my ratings!! Instead of paying almost 6M for Burkett in lf, why not consider Leibold? For less than 4M, you have a lefty bat with more on-base, better speed, and even better defense if you factor the arm. Only downsides is that Leibold is weak, so you could lose a few homeruns if you're facing weaker rotations, and he could be hit for a 15-game injury--but replacing a left fielder is the easiest part of the bench, it seems to me.

Burkett is weak also, a peculiarity of the dead ball era where some ballparks were really tiny and others gargantuan.