HAL Bullpen Logic

I have 2 bullpen studs (J Hiller and R Fingers)
My strategy is to use Hiller as MM and close with Fingers.
In the first 9 games, Hiller has blown 3 leads by fatiguing down to F0 and throwing a HR.
I've had him set at Quick Hook F8, yet HAL keeps leaving him in???
And Fingers had not been used in either game before the Hiller meltdown?
Settings below - Any suggestions?

http://365.strat-o-matic.com/index.php/team/bullpen

Unfortunately, your link does not bring up your bullpen settings (it brings up mine), so I am guessing...

Be sure to have two pitchers listed for each role. You don't have to use every role on the list, but if you choose a role, make sure you have two pitchers in that role.

I will share how I use some settings. I'm not suggesting they are the only "right" way, but they work for me.

I set the following pitchers to F8:

Excellent starters
Super reliever
Closer
Dedicated Mopup guy

Everyone else I leave blank.

I never use slow hook. I rarely use quick hook (and never on a pitcher with F8 set).

I leave closer setting to Normal under team settings.

I use every role on the list except the R/L ones.

For weaker starters, I will limit their innings to 6 (sometimes 7) innings.

I never limit relief pitchers in how many innings they can pitch in relief.

Quick question: how do I know what fatigue level my pitcher is at during the game? Is there something obvious on the screen that tells me and I'm just missing it?

Go into the game link and click the play by play header---on the far right you will see the pitchers F status after the AB has occurred--if the pitcher drops below F8 and you have F8 listed in pitchers strategy, he should come out of the game unless no one is available or your relief staff is all tired (most relievers will come into the game tired (F0) if it is their 3rd game in a row--at least in 20xx)--even when there is no-one but tired pitchers left HAL will pull the starter often, which is a vote for leaving the starter's F setting blank in most cases. F settings are not hard settings, but they are 90%+---usually the only time I see Hal ignore the F settings is when you have a huge lead late in the game with the starter still in the game.

Also as for remove after 6 or 7 innings---beware this is a hard setting and the pitcher will be taken out, even if your relief staff is all tired. (I've never seen a case where he didn't come out, unless the maybe the F setting was used--F settings override the remove after 6 or 7 I think)

If you provide a link to the team or the game, we can see the play by play of your teams schedule and game(s).

Unfortunately the link you provided is a universal link to the active team on my screen (which will be one of my teams)
I have found no way to link team settings to other managers.

Unfortunately, your link does not bring up your bullpen settings (it brings up mine), so I am guessing...

Be sure to have two pitchers listed for each role. You don't have to use every role on the list, but if you choose a role, make sure you have two pitchers in that role.

I will share how I use some settings. I'm not suggesting they are the only "right" way, but they work for me.

I set the following pitchers to F8:

Excellent starters
Super reliever
Closer
Dedicated Mopup guy

Everyone else I leave blank.



I never use slow hook. I rarely use quick hook (and never on a pitcher with F8 set).

I leave closer setting to Normal under team settings.

I use every role on the list except the R/L ones.

For weaker starters, I will limit their innings to 6 (sometimes 7) innings.

I never limit relief pitchers in how many innings they can pitch in relief.

Thanks Coyote,
Very helpful.
I agree with all your suggestions except I think F8, with Qk Hook pulls the pitcher at F8, where by not selecting Qk HAL may allow him to continue as he fatigues and makes him more vulnerable.
Other than that, I always set 2 pitchers/setting, except R/L Specialists.

Stratorat,

As I read your initial post, I have to guess, but it seems to me that you have the default closer settings in the strategy page, which is to maximize the closer rule. This setting may limit Fingers only to clear-cut closer situations, and so Hiller might end up as the only available option for Hal in tight situations that don't become a "closer situation". I should add Strat has a definition for "closer situation" in the rules (roughly, any 9th inning situation where the winning run is the circle deck) that is different than in MLB (roughly, any inning situation where a reliever has to protect 3-run lead). I'm pretty sure that the "maximizing" activation on the strategy page refers to the Strat closer situation, so the main impact is that he will limit the closer mostly to the 9th inning.

I set the following pitchers to F8:

Excellent starters
Super reliever
Closer
Dedicated Mopup guy

Everyone else I leave blank.

I never use slow hook. I rarely use quick hook (and never on a pitcher with F8 set).

I leave closer setting to Normal under team settings.

For 20XX, I do the same except that I sometimes use a "quick hook"+F8 when I feel that my second best reliever is only slightly worse than my best reliever. Also I don't specify a F8 role to the dedicated mopup guy. The main reason is because I feel that Hal deals cleverly the bullpen role in mopup/nonmopup situations. As long as the mopup situation is maintained, Hal will not remove the mopup guy, whether he is set at F8 or not. But if my team comes back and the situation changes, not setting a F8 gives the freedom to Hal to use the other settings and not stick to the mop-up guy.

However, my first year of ATG experience forced me to use other settings in the upper cap leagues. Main reason is that, in those leagues, I want to avoid at all cost a reliever being on a lower F fatigue state, and using a setting like F8+quick hook to a top reliever brought too many at-bats with lower F state. Depending on the depth of my bullpen, I will sometimes use for a top R3 reliever the following "slow hook" + "max 2-3 innings". Since the reliever is R3, the lower F8 will almost only occur in the third inning or beyond, and the "max 2-3" innings setting will usually force Hal to remove the reliever has pitched three full innings. That said, this setting forces me to have at least 3 studs if I use the quick hook on my starting pitchers.

Well, I have a bunch of strategies depending on the pitching staff I have. I want to make sure that I'm not exhausting my bullpen; on the other hand, if I have expensive relievers I don't want them sitting in the bench while much weaker starters continue to pitch deep into my games. In my view, the settings should be done so I have the strongest possible pitching out there that I can. So F8 settings for elite starters, elite relievers and the closer make sense. What is the argument against quick hook if you got an F8 setting? If you don't like Hal yanking your guy until he hits F6 then why not use that setting with quick hook? If you just use F8 without quick hook you're giving Hal free rein to use a tired pitcher. I guess I don't understand the reasoning there.

And if I have cheap starting pitching why have no setting at all? I mean, if I have Wade Davis on the bench do I want Jose Fernandez pitching in the 8th or 9th inning? If I spend a lot on relief and get cheap starting pitching then I tend to just put quick hook with my starters. So if they get into trouble in the 5th they get pulled and I maximize the value of my expensive relievers. How much relief you need when you go with these kinds of settings is a bit of an art--it's impossible to get it exactly right--but you sort of see how it works with different teams and different stadiums. If I have got expensive starters maybe I just go with F8 with my starters because I have no relief depth. Maybe I figure I only have enough relief depth to have 2 guys on quick hook and the other three have F8 quick hook. It seems to me you have to play with the settings on each team factoring the quality of your starting pitching and relief depth (factoring in the stadium as well), try to get as much expensive relief in place of inferior starters into the game that you can, and make sure that you have enough relief depth given your starting pitching, stadium and settings. Settings are contextual and don't just relate to the pitcher but how that pitcher fits in with a particular staff.

So my issue is how Hal manages my settings. Playing in ATG 8 AL only, my pitching strategy going in was 1 strong starter (Chesbro) and one strong reliever (Pedro), and then to balance the bullpen by using the F settings. I figured if I get a CG out of Chesbro (win or lose), Pedro can go the two other games in most series and I'm vulnerable infrequently at that point.

For the first dozen games, Hal seemed to follow this. Over the last 5 series, Hal isn't following the settings, my ERA is soaring and I'm 4-11, with many of the losses somewhat attributable to pitching decisions. So far, at least, the majority of my problems are middle to late innings. Obviously if my starters are getting bombed early this strategy doesn't work at all.

I set Chesbro at "don't relieve before F0" because frankly he's never going to get hurt on his card, and I figure if i get a CG out of him, most series Pedro can pitch the other two games and I'm in good shape. I also have Pedro at an F0 for same reasons. He can go 4 innings of relief so I want him in as much as possible. The other starters I have at F8 and Quick Hook. I have 2 relievers who go 5 innings set at F7 and my mopup reliever set at F4 (who cares how bad it gets at that point).

Since the first dozen games, though, Hal is taking Chesbro out of games at F9 and before 9 innings (winning or losing). He's also taking Pedro out of games at F9 and before he hits his innings limits. On the R5 relievers, they too are coming out before their innings limits and still at F9.

After reading this thread I just changed my Relief Usage to Regular from Maximize. and I removed all Quick/Slo hooks in hopes Hal will go by F settings.

Anything else I can do to have my intended strategy followed?

I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.

According to SOM 365 rules, with the exception of SP, pitcher fatigue does not carry on to the next game(s). Therefore, your relief staff should be fully charged for each game.

This differs from SOM-Manual and SOM-Computer version.

Correct me if I am wrong.

I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.

According to SOM 365 rules, with the exception of SP, pitcher fatigue does not carry on to the next game(s). Therefore, your relief staff should be fully charged for each game.

This differs from SOM-Manual and SOM-Computer version.

Correct me if I am wrong.

If a reliever pitches two games in a row, he will come in fatigued (F4?) if he is forced to pitch a third game. There is an exception if he pitches, I believe, less than an inning (specifically 1/3 inning?) he may not be fatigued for the third game.