The Super Reliever Fiasco

Just to clarify, since I was quoted earlier in this thread.

In 2010, SOM introduced a new rule to limit bullpen overusage. Here is the full description http://www.strat-o-matic.com/community/announcements/new-rule-limits-relief-pitching-abuse

If a reliever pitches 2 or more innings above his relief fatigue rating then he must rest one day before his next appearance. If he pitches 3 or more innings above his relief fatigue rating then he must rest two days before his next appearance. If a relief pitcher is used without this proper amount of rest, consider him fatigued for the entire relief outing

It's been 7 years the rule has been set by SOM, and yet, the rule is still not implemented in the 365 online game. Seven damned years. This is not laziness, it is disrespect to customers.

That being said, if you read the rule clearfully, you will realize that this rule will NOT fix the super-reliever problem in ATG. Rather, the rule is there to fix the overusage of R1 relievers in regular 20XX league. In my final Tour league, I used Melancon, a R1/C6 reliever for roughly 180 innings. Many of Melancon's outings were 3 innings. Under the new 2010 rule, Melancon would be forced to take a rest after every 3-inning outing, since such outings are 2 innings above Melancon's span. My estimation is that the new rule would limit Melancon to probably 140 innings.

In ATG, however, the super-reliever mostly relates to Murray, Sutter, Wilheim, all R3-R4 relievers. So the rule would come in effect only when the reliever goes 5 innings (or 6 innings for R4 cases). And such long outings rarely come in effect. In my latest ATG, I used Schultz, the cheaper version of Sutter, a R3 reliever, for 296 innings. Looking at his log, the new rule would have forced a rest only once, so he would have likely cumulated 292 innings instead of 296 innings. Not the same impact as for Melancon. The reason is easy to understand: the quick hook/aggressive usage of bullpen settings come in effect only in the 5th innings, unless a starting pitcher is close to allow--or has allowed---5 runs in an inning. So a typical situation is that a SP goes 4.1 ip, and is quickly removed, and the super-reliever goes 4.2 ip, grabbing the W on his way. Since the 4+ outing still come short of the span+2 limit, the reliever would be available for another outing.

So, long story short, another kind of rules would be needed to restrict the problem of overusage in ATG.

Why can't we put our own rule in the tour?

If any reliever goes over"x" amount of relief innings you lose "y" amount of tour points.

....;or simply makes those cards ineligible for tour leagues.

TSN will create almost any SPECIAL "shuffle" deck of player cards you want

The Barnstormers Tour years ago, it could be 10 or more years ago, did have a rule which penalized a team in which a pure RP went over a set amount. I want to say 200 IP but my memory is not what it used to be. Maybe someone else playing the tour that long will remember the specifics.

It was eventually discarded as the need to simplify the tour and it's rules to take the load off the poor old Commish became more important. if the Barnstormers Board was interested in revisiting the issue for 2018, a majority vote of the Board could certainly bring this back. My only thought on the subject is with so many new players trying out the tour each year, that we not complicate the rules too much.

MM

I would think the simple fix would be a "drop dead rule" once a pitcher exceeds 10 pct. greater innings pitched than he has on his card he is gone. The same rule would apply for hitters once they exceed 10pct greater PA than they have on their card [goodbye Gates Brown] I'm sure that the super techs at STRAT can incorporate this feature into the game engine. Long ago when I played in head to head board game leagues we were responsible to keep our team stats and we used this rule to limit those players that had great cards but limited innings or PA and it worked. I'm sure it would work here too. Bill

I would think the simple fix would be a "drop dead rule" once a pitcher exceeds 10 pct. greater innings pitched than he has on his card he is gone. The same rule would apply for hitters once they exceed 10pct greater PA than they have on their card [goodbye Gates Brown] I'm sure that the super techs at STRAT can incorporate this feature into the game engine. Long ago when I played in head to head board game leagues we were responsible to keep our team stats and we used this rule to limit those players that had great cards but limited innings or PA and it worked. I'm sure it would work here too. Bill

FWIW ... I doubt anything like this will happen because it will require repricing of a HUGE % of the players in the set.

Gates Brown would become strictly a pinch hitter which was in reality what he was.

The complaints about Murray being over used and not being one of the best players in baseball doing so well is like complaining about a hitter who had incredible stats in only 150 or so ABs being one of the league leaders in offensive stats. This is not an issue in ATG as most everyone uses 600+ PA hitters but in the 20XX game this is often the case.

This Murray argument basically boils down to the "realists" complaining about players having much better cards than the player really is (or was historically). Limitations on AB or IP has never been done by SOM. Correct player pricing should take care of this. The hitter with only 150 real AB is priced as if he would play every day. Murray is also priced this way. If he is getting more IP than was expected by whoever is setting the salaries then maybe an upward adjustment for all stud R3, R4 and R5 RP is in order. That seems like the easiest fix to me.

Something does need to happen.

Easiest to me is just bump up cost of commonly overused part time players and super relievers.
Seems simple to me.

HI,

Appreciate the post thread here...one of my challenges faced in the past couple years since I resumed my strato passion after about a decade off is a lack of clarity with the reliever rules. I saw a post somewhere on one forum or another - perhaps posted by Druid - that mentioned closer rules are not used in ATG 8. Not sure if that's true, but if it is, what other relief rules are not specifically or particularly closely followed in ATG play versus the 'super advanced' rule set?

Along these lines, in terms of the F8 function.....is there a graduated scale of tiredness that takes a pitcher to 'completely fatigued' - whereby completely fatigued' means the additional 10 chances are now single **? And if so, is it a linear scale, say from F8 = 2 additional chances, F0 = 10 additional chances? Or is F8 = 0 additional single** chances, and fatigue proceeds from there? If so, by what function?

I ask in order to try to better understand the discussion on super relievers. I've had some Sutter teams, but never Murray, as perhaps I've been successful against him as I've focused until somewhat recently on trying to get my Reverse Righty power lineup logic sorted out, so I've quasi-addressed his quasi-weakness. In any event, if Murray especially with the R4 doesn't suffer in a close situation (by this I mean CL3 isn't great shakes), and only at maximum fatigue reaches 5.25 card singles + 10 walks + ballpark singles + 10 fatigue singles (for a total of 25.25 'soft' OB chances when totally fatigued + ballpark).....gee...I wish I'd previously known that. Especially with the -5 hold. I think I've tried to rationalize that he must get worse than what I describe when pitching 3/4 of all possible days (I believe that is the rule) and I guess I tried to look at his e38 and 15 Fly(lf) B as somehow not worth it in an 80M league. No idea what the fly(B) net effect is. Just something I glommed on to.

Sorry for the ramble, but I agree with the post that clarity on the relief rules would be helpful. If they are here somewhere in some forum, I haven't found them, but then again, I'm not great at tying my shoes, either.

PT

And furthermore!

I apparently underutilized Sutter!

PT

I just wish the game would have been kept with the same spirit that is defined in this video of the opening of the Hall of Fame, which at the time was the 100th anniversary of baseball. Now there is a thread to nominate 100 cards, with such a plethora of cards, with an overwhelming demand of a players “best” year, you end up with a digital overload, in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWEpyXidZ4M