17.3 Card Add theme

I'm inclined to stay with the current proposed direction but feel its important to be open to opinions on how we can make this process better and incorporate a broader impact.

Salty - I'd encourage you to start a post in the Card forums to start building a high end card list and awareness (more support could help get Cano over the hump next time). That way if its determined that say 20% of the card add should represent high end cards we can quickly get to a short list.

I will also be starting one around which team to add so we can be ready if its determined we're staying the course.

tks
Rosie

I like to look at the data so here's the breakdown from all 100 cards that we've added during this new process.

Salary - Total/Batters/Pitchers
10m+ - 5/2/3
9 - 8/6/2
8 - 15/8/7
7 - 22/16/6
6 - 14/9/5
5 - 14/11/3
4 - 11/7/4
3 - 5/3/2
2 - 1/1/0
1 - 3/1/2
0 - 2/2/0

All - 100/66/34

Ok let's get specific, adding my opinion but curious of all of yours
Batters
10m+ - Harper, Trout - both high cap contributors
9m - Foxx'38, Goldschmidt, Lezcano (vL), Miguel Cabrera, Thome (vR), Josh Hamilton (vR) - all high cappers with their stated leanings, although Foxx's 13m card is his preferred
8m - Flick, Bottomley, Delahanty'1899, McCutchen (vL), Ken Williams, Brouthers, Colavito, Votto (vR) - borderline based on Salty's parameters but I can see/have seen all these guys find homes in higher caps
7m - Kiner'51, Holiday, Kent, Ott'38, Schoendienst'53, Braun, Hanley Ramirez, Donaldson, Adcock, Vernon...stopped there. Kiner for sure although we all know he has a better card, Holiday ok, Kent no, Ott probably not. Donaldson and Adcock I see as yes.

Starting Pitchers
10m+ - Russ Ford, Schupp, Greinke - yep
9m - Arrieta, Randy - mostly yes on these two although their lefty lean does pose some problems
8m - Ellsworth, McDowell, Hahn, Hunter, Scherzer, Pascual, Shantz - hmmm, as 4th starters?
7m - Horlen'64, Peavy, Bumgarner, Felix Hernandez'14, Jose Fernandez, Sale - again depends on how much cap you're playing but these guys could also make those rosters

Relievers
4m - Lidge, Abernathy, Eichorn (vR) - Lidge yes, Abernathy (hmmm), Eichorn yes vR
3m - Mesa, Fingers - Mesa maybe Fingers no


So cards that can compete at higher caps...batters 10-20, SP 5-15, RP 2-4

We did test the 75 cards from 16.1 16.2 out in this league...but it was at $100m.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/league/432084

Let me tell you who ACTUALLY gets used from this group in high caps:

10m+ - Harper, Trout YES
9m - Foxx'38 (NO, other cards are better), Goldschmidt Fringe player, Lezcano- YES (vL), Miguel Cabrera-YES, Thome-YES (vR), Josh HamiltonYES (vR) - all high cappers with their stated leanings, although Foxx's 13m card is his preferred
8m - Flick-NO, Bottomley-NO, Delahanty'1899-NO, McCutchen (Fringe) (vL), Ken Williams- Not really occasional bench, Brouthers-NO, Colavito-occasional fringe, Votto-NO (vR) -
7m - Kiner'51-NO, Holiday-NO, Kent-NO, Ott'38-YES, Schoendienst'53-NO, Braun-NO, Hanley Ramirez-Not really, Donaldson-NO, Adcock-NO, Vernon-NO...

Starting Pitchers
10m+ - Russ Ford, Schupp, Greinke - YES
9m - Arrieta, Randy - YES
8m - Ellsworth-YES, McDowell-NO, Hahn-NO, Hunter-NO, Scherzer-YES, Pascual-YES, Shantz-NO
7m - Horlen'64-YES, Peavy-NO, Bumgarner-NO, Felix Hernandez'14-NO, Jose Fernandez-NO, Sale-Occasionally -

Relievers
4m - Lidge, Abernathy, Eichorn (vR) - Lidge yes, Abernathy (hmmm), Eichorn yes vR-- YES
3m - Mesa, Fingers - Mesa maybe Fingers no-- NO

maybe 10 hitters who get used-- a couple others find a roster on occasion.
about 10 pitchers who are usable-- same as above, a couple others find a roster on occasion.

So over the course of a year plus-- we added maybe 20 guys-- but maybe 10-15 starters from this group--
its a problem.
Although I do appreciate the suggestion of what we are doing.

I like to look at the data so here's the breakdown from all 100 cards that we've added during this new process.

Salary - Total/Batters/Pitchers
10m+ - 5/2/3
9 - 8/6/2
8 - 15/8/7
7 - 22/16/6
6 - 14/9/5
5 - 14/11/3
4 - 11/7/4
3 - 5/3/2
2 - 1/1/0
1 - 3/1/2
0 - 2/2/0

All - 100/66/34

Ok let's get specific, adding my opinion but curious of all of yours
Batters
10m+ - Harper, Trout - both high cap contributors
9m - Foxx'38, Goldschmidt, Lezcano (vL), Miguel Cabrera, Thome (vR), Josh Hamilton (vR) - all high cappers with their stated leanings, although Foxx's 13m card is his preferred
8m - Flick, Bottomley, Delahanty'1899, McCutchen (vL), Ken Williams, Brouthers, Colavito, Votto (vR) - borderline based on Salty's parameters but I can see/have seen all these guys find homes in higher caps
7m - Kiner'51, Holiday, Kent, Ott'38, Schoendienst'53, Braun, Hanley Ramirez, Donaldson, Adcock, Vernon...stopped there. Kiner for sure although we all know he has a better card, Holiday ok, Kent no, Ott probably not. Donaldson and Adcock I see as yes.

Starting Pitchers
10m+ - Russ Ford, Schupp, Greinke - yep
9m - Arrieta, Randy - mostly yes on these two although their lefty lean does pose some problems
8m - Ellsworth, McDowell, Hahn, Hunter, Scherzer, Pascual, Shantz - hmmm, as 4th starters?
7m - Horlen'64, Peavy, Bumgarner, Felix Hernandez'14, Jose Fernandez, Sale - again depends on how much cap you're playing but these guys could also make those rosters

Relievers
4m - Lidge, Abernathy, Eichorn (vR) - Lidge yes, Abernathy (hmmm), Eichorn yes vR
3m - Mesa, Fingers - Mesa maybe Fingers no


So cards that can compete at higher caps...batters 10-20, SP 5-15, RP 2-4

We did test the 75 cards from 16.1 16.2 out in this league...but it was at $100m.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/league/432084

Let me tell you who ACTUALLY gets used from this group in high caps:

10m+ - Harper, Trout YES
9m - Foxx'38 (NO, other cards are better), Goldschmidt Fringe player, Lezcano- YES (vL), Miguel Cabrera-YES, Thome-YES (vR), Josh HamiltonYES (vR) - all high cappers with their stated leanings, although Foxx's 13m card is his preferred
8m - Flick-NO, Bottomley-NO, Delahanty'1899-NO, McCutchen (Fringe) (vL), Ken Williams- Not really occasional bench, Brouthers-NO, Colavito-occasional fringe, Votto-NO (vR) -
7m - Kiner'51-NO, Holiday-NO, Kent-NO, Ott'38-YES, Schoendienst'53-NO, Braun-NO, Hanley Ramirez-Not really, Donaldson-NO, Adcock-NO, Vernon-NO...

Starting Pitchers
10m+ - Russ Ford, Schupp, Greinke - YES
9m - Arrieta, Randy - YES
8m - Ellsworth-YES, McDowell-NO, Hahn-NO, Hunter-NO, Scherzer-YES, Pascual-YES, Shantz-NO
7m - Horlen'64-YES, Peavy-NO, Bumgarner-NO, Felix Hernandez'14-NO, Jose Fernandez-NO, Sale-Occasionally -

Relievers
4m - Lidge, Abernathy, Eichorn (vR) - Lidge yes, Abernathy (hmmm), Eichorn yes vR-- YES
3m - Mesa, Fingers - Mesa maybe Fingers no-- NO

maybe 10 hitters who get used-- a couple others find a roster on occasion.
about 10 pitchers who are usable-- same as above, a couple others find a roster on occasion.

So over the course of a year plus-- we added maybe 20 guys-- but maybe 10-15 starters from this group--
its a problem.
Although I do appreciate the suggestion of what we are doing.

Again, it's all in the perspective. For those of us who enjoy the challenge of the low-cap leagues, we are really being underrepresented in the card adds. Just look at the numbers:

28% added at 8m and above
50% added at 7m and above
Vs.
22% added below 5m
11% added below 4m

BC15NY 3 issues with that statement:

1.even in most lower caps (below 80 not of course) you still use players in the 7-8 mil range quite frequently.

2.in higher caps we are still using mostly 9 mil and above- so it actually proves the point of how few we are getting
*although this is also inaccurate b/c of RPs.

3.SOME of these players are being overpriced for most uses-- you can see it in the lack of use at high caps.

There's more that I mentioned elsewhere, but will leave it at that.

BC15NY 3 issues with that statement:

1.even in most lower caps (below 80 not of course) you still use players in the 7-8 mil range quite frequently.

2.in higher caps we are still using mostly 9 mil and above- so it actually proves the point of how few we are getting
*although this is also inaccurate b/c of RPs.

3.SOME of these players are being overpriced for most uses-- you can see it in the lack of use at high caps.

There's more that I mentioned elsewhere, but will leave it at that.

In 80m and 60m leagues, the vast majority of cards used are below 6m. On a typical 80m team you will have around 6 cards over 6m, so 75% of the roster is under 6m in price. My point is that I don't see any more of a case for needing a special add for high-cap cards, then I can make for a special add for low-cap cards.

Hey guys let's hit the pause button on the high cap vs lower cap debate for the time being. I respect where both of you are coming from but let's hear from some others as well. I'm in the process of pulling some data myself to help gain a more informed perspective.

tks
Rosie

Hey guys let's hit the pause button on the high cap vs lower cap debate for the time being. I respect where both of you are coming from but let's hear from some others as well. I'm in the process of pulling some data myself to help gain a more informed perspective.

tks
Rosie

I will finish by adding that if we are going to do a high-cap card add, I think that doing it along with the complete team add makes a lot of sense. Adding a full team (2008 Rays hopefully) guarantees some new lower priced cards, so a 25-card high-priced add to go along with it should make almost everyone happy.

Thanks,
Bill

Hey guys let's hit the pause button on the high cap vs lower cap debate for the time being. I respect where both of you are coming from but let's hear from some others as well. I'm in the process of pulling some data myself to help gain a more informed perspective.

tks
Rosie

I will finish by adding that if we are going to do a high-cap card add, I think that doing it along with the complete team add makes a lot of sense. Adding a full team (2008 Rays hopefully) guarantees some new lower priced cards, so a 25-card high-priced add to go along with it should make almost everyone happy.

Thanks,
Bill

That would be great-
Im totally on board with this suggestion!
(in fact that was my whole thing-- that we actually do some specific higher adds b/c so far there hasn't been whats been perceived)

I think there's something to be said for the adding of one whole team, plus for the other 25 players, an all 90s add, as suggested by djp_77.
I can see at least four advantages to an all-90s add of 25 players:

1) It would add a lot of new players and almost inevitably strengthen under-represented franchises
2) It would add the strongest card for players represented by weaker cards.
3) We will be able to actually see the cards--since most will have mystery card versions of their years. This might facilitate finding some cheaper-card gems--e.g. effective platoon players and cheap but effective utility guys.
4. Also, pitcher cards are always dicey--will the card represent the good stats? We can see for ourselves whether the years are actually good if we can see the cards. This might lead to more pitcher picks, including both SPs and RPs.

If not an all 90s add, the how about an all-mystery-card add: that is, 1960s to 1990s? However, I think there is an advantage to a sharp focus on a single under-represented decade featuring lots of newer franchises.

Suggested card add theme...vote to add 25 middle infielders SS/2b...only middle infielders..