17.3 Card Add theme

there's been too much expressed in this thread to comment cogently on all of it, but, I find it hard to believe that anyone who plays here does not want Cuckoo Christenson

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... cu01.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_Christensen

my deeper point is, isn't wallowing in (enjoying at least) the history of baseball what 'All-Time Greats' sorta means?

Patrick-- I think that you are making my point--

What good is having a Cukoo card if no one uses it other than to say they used it?
Having a card to say we have a card doesn't have much meaning if it isn't being played for reasons other than the quirky narrative behind it-- meaning not strategic.

Ill use Jeff Russell as the counter example-- he would clearly have gotten played a LOT-- because he gets used in franchise leagues for Texas, he gets used as a good RP in general, and definitely gets drafted in most if not all the high caps leagues-- all because of his card being strategically useful.

My five cents:

1. There are always going to complaints about specific outcomes of any given election, no matter how that voting opportunity is structured.

2. We now have an ongoing Annual Cadence, with four chances to add new cards, up to a total of 125 cards a year.

3. If a player misses the vote during one election, he will have many more chances.

4. Despite a few strange picks, we added a large number of excellent cards in round 17.2.

5. I think Rosie deserves a round of applause for his willingness to listen and his outstanding job in structuring and conducting these elections.

So let's give it up for Rosie!

5. I think Rosie deserves a round of applause for his willingness to listen and his outstanding job in structuring and conducting these elections.

So let's give it up for Rosie!

Yeah Rosie!!!!

Bernie--

Id hope we should be capable of recognizing that Cs and 3bs might have better offensive numbers than middle infielders--
and still be able to vote in the right folks;
IF thats not the case then there really is no point in the community voting at all.

the voting process is a funny animal. As the shepherd of this current process I've refrained numerous times from adding my opinion on specific cards being voted on. But a perfect case in point that the 'right folks' don't always get in is our recent add of Cuckoo Christensen. While the card voted in is a good season and Cuckoo could obviously hit he was voted in over many more deserving players (IMO).

I'll play devil's advocate here. Christensen did have close to 400 abs in 1926, leading the league in obp. If they had had rookie of the year voting in 1926, he would have won it hands down (and don't forget there are some here who would include all rookies of the year -- remember we also have Joe Charboneau, he of the prodigious rookie season and VERY little else in his three year career. Christensen had a much better rookie season.) He is the reason that the Reds traded away Edd Roush. So what if his mlb career wasn't that long. And besides he was born in San Francisco. All players born in San Francisco should be in ATG in my very chauvinistic opinion...Would you feel better if we called him by his given name, Walter?

I'm always a little bit suspicious of the word "deserving"....

Bill

Cuckoo Christensen was a big success in 1926 in the major leagues. When he slumped in his second year, he left, never to return. However, he had a long minor league career from at least 1921-1933, and afterwards was an umpire who worked college and semi-pro games and sometimes filled in at the Pacific Coast League.
Christensen was nicknamed "seacap" or "cuckoo christy". He liked to get attention by doing things like somersaults before he caught fly balls.
As a rookie in the majors with the Cincinnati Reds in 1926, his batting average of .350 was second in the league and his on-base percentage was first in the league. However, he had no power, hitting no home run in 114 games. His team finished only two games behind the pennant-winning St. Louis Cardinals managed by Rogers Hornsby. In 1927, he slumped to .254, with only 6 extra-base hits in 185 at-bats and washed out of the league.
Before coming to the Reds, Christensen had spent four seasons with the St. Paul Saints, leading the league in runs scored one season and leading the league in stolen bases another season. Teammates included Chuck Dressen and Tom Sheehan. After his major league days he spent years in the American Association and in the Pacific Coast League.

It's time for the resistance to accept the results of the election. I nominated Walter for damn good reason. To be a reasonably priced platoon option against RHP. There is a need for those. Sorry, but many people play $80M or $100M ATG, The complaints appear to be coming from the $200M or $999M or franchise private league managers. I'm sure others who play the Barnstormers tourney and the traditional payroll saw the value in his card. To hold Cuckoo up as show non-deserving card is wrong. If anything, I don't see why there needs to be additional cards for guys like Mantle.

Scumby--
generally agree with your thought process.

BUT here in this case-- cukoo again is fine-- as I said earlier the case isn't for or against him per se--
it will all depend on what his card looks like and is priced at.

BUT look at what we added-- almost exclusively 1bs and Ofs--
Zero Cs, Zero 3Bs and just a few middle inf SPs and RPs.

Even if we ignore the high cap thing-- we still are adding a good deal of more of the same-
and often going against the reason some of us are using to vote on a card-- (this is non-cukoo specific here)

Scumby--
generally agree with your thought process.

BUT here in this case-- cukoo again is fine-- as I said earlier the case isn't for or against him per se--
it will all depend on what his card looks like and is priced at.

BUT look at what we added-- almost exclusively 1bs and Ofs--
Zero Cs, Zero 3Bs and just a few middle inf SPs and RPs.

Even if we ignore the high cap thing-- we still are adding a good deal of more of the same-
and often going against the reason some of us are using to vote on a card-- (this is non-cukoo specific here)

I agree about that.

I think we just come at this with different goals. I am interested in the PLAYERS, not so much the CARDS. So, my process is simple: find players who are either not represented with an ATG card, or players lacking representative cards for their career. I'd love for every deserving player to be properly represented with a card that somewhat accurately depicts their importance to that specific era of MLB.

I play many different caps and franchise leagues, so, yes, I use MANY cards, some of which may be deemed "unusable" by others. I'm not necessarily looking for GREAT cards. The cards simply represent the players I want to use. So, for example, I don't want Luis Gonzalez's one great CARD to be in the same ballpark as Stan Musial, but because Gonzalez has a great CARD, he's right there close to Musial.

True Statement:
Some play ATG because they love STRAT and want great CARDS with which to play Strat.
Some play ATG because they love BASEBALL and Baseball History and want to play with the PLAYERS from Baseball History.

Neither viewpoint is right, neither viewpoint is wrong. But it does help to explain why many have differences of opinion on what adds to make.

I think Andy has summed up the situation very well. Everyone has their own goal for these card adds. My goal is to get good CARDS for the PLAYERS that aren't represented at all, or by poor cards (e.g. Fritz Peterson).

When one set of participants is playing at 200m and up, while another set is playing at 60-100m, and yet another set plays franchise leagues, there is no way that we will ever reach a true consensus on a process.

That being said, I think Rosie is doing a fantastic job and at least we are getting a bunch of new cards added.

One thing I don't get though is how some folks are just absolutely sure that certain cards won't get used. First, until the card is priced, how can you possibly be so sure? Next, if you play mostly at one end of the cap spectrum, you really can't speak to what folks on the other end are doing. (I'm in a 30m cap league right now, for example). Finally, thanks very much to everyone who voted for Carlos Pena!

What no one is discussing, and what goes much more to the crux of the problem (i.e., cards not being utilized), is that the pricing for most of the ATG 8 cards is HORRENDOUS. If the pricing were fixed, people would not feel as if they had to use the same cards over and over again, and, thus, the game would feel as if it had more variety.

I think in a 50 card add, there has to be a little something for everyone.

What no one is discussing, and what goes much more to the crux of the problem (i.e., cards not being utilized), is that the pricing for most of the ATG 8 cards is HORRENDOUS. If the pricing were fixed, people would not feel as if they had to use the same cards over and over again, and, thus, the game would feel as if it had more variety.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with this discussion. We can only hope the game company will address this with ATG9