Dont get me wrong...

Been pretty mild here so I was a bit surprised when Charlie called me out in a not so veiled attempt to bring my name to SOM's attention just in case they hadn't noticed me yet.

see heres the thing that its been coming back to:

If you dont like the US- as opposed to fighting for/against things you agree with -
leave and go start your own country?
Why is it so difficult to understand that those of us who are speaking out aren't simply destructive dissenters who are bringing the game down, but people who are actually fighting/crying for things to be better- for EVERYONE.

Now, before you tell me that we arent everyone- think about all of the things that we in this country have.
How many of them are here because some people fought for things to be better for everyone- not just themselves.
Thats why women can vote. Thats why any of a million things we have we didnt do on 'our own'-
Including me having the ability to express myself here.

...but hey, we dont 'get it'
Lets all move to UZ-Salt-Istan, or Never Land, or Dharmaville. Then what a happy place this forum will be- where everyone can talk about whats really important.

Do you recognize the difference between a private business and a government that controls actions? The diatribe that is going on here is ridiculous. The only purpose of these threads is to be destructive. You know if you are a great businessman and don't like how someone runs a business you can start your own. If you and Nev are allowed to continue posting this way, then these forums serve no purpose either.

Just to clarify, Charlie does "not" mean diatribe as in "a bitter and abusive speech or piece of writing" (I was greatly offended) but meaning discourse and irony (less offensive although still detracting a bit from my fun time here)....My bad.

And while I can't really speak for Charlie as well as he can apparently speak for everyone else...I "think" he means "then these forums serve no purpose "to him"... he'll correct me if I'm wrong (he'll correct me if I'm right) are we having fun yet?

I should keep my mouth shut, but c'mon. This is an online baseball game. The game engine isn't working as well as it used to, the customer service isn't great, Bernie is no longer available as a sounding board ... yep, I agree, things need to be improved. And the notion that SOM might monitor the boards and boot paying customers off for venting about their product -- that rubs me the wrong way too. Same with that message they sent to Salty ... I find it patronizing.

BUT ... comparing this situation to Nazi-era Germany? Really???

Here's a link to the National Holocaust Museum, where you can learn more about your quote. There's an old woman in my neighborhood who survived the Holocaust. I'm pretty sure our situation on the ATG board is not equivalent to her experiences. Let's keep things in perspective and not be ridiculous and offensive.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10007392

I agree that its nowhere near the same thing as nazi germany. Not even close.

I do think small evils are occuring here- but nowhere in the same ballpark- so Ive taken down my quote.

I used the quote because its a favorite of mine that I think of when I see things happening that I believe are wrong- and feel forced to speak out about it.

Even if the wrong is on a small scale-
You are right, nowhere near the same thing.

I should keep my mouth shut

Definitely don't keep your mouth shut! The forums are for discussion. Of course, some topics are off limits, like how SOM treats their customers. But...Speak! Speak! Speak!

I agree that its nowhere near the same thing as nazi germany. Not even close.

I do think small evils are occuring here- but nowhere in the same ballpark- so Ive taken down my quote.

I used the quote because its a favorite of mine that I think of when I see things happening that I believe are wrong- and feel forced to speak out about it.

Even if the wrong is on a small scale-
You are right, nowhere near the same thing.

At the risk of sounding condescending, I applaud Salty for backing down. In fairness to him, according to Godwin's Law it was inevitable that a comparison to Nazi Germany be made by someone at some point! See the Wikipedia article on it (even if it is a bit dry): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

As critical as I have been of what I perceive to be destructive comments, I do see both sides. Let me explain. I play another online sports game (they would want me to mention their name; if you know who "Bort" is then you know which game I'm talking about). My team had a season where almost every game was won or lost by over 100 points, in other words--total blowouts. I complained on the board that I wished the game had better parity. My post disappeared within 24 hours with no explanation. The same happened to another unrelated post another time. I felt both my posts were made alerting a problem that needed to be addressed, and I was respectful. Once my flex points are used up, I'll be done with that game.

At least here, we can cite a problem with the game and ask that it be looked at and fixed.

So, let me ask: Do you* want the game to get better? If so, help the community communicate assertively what needs to be done to make you satisfied. Aggressive and passive-aggressive posts and sarcasm might make you feel self-righteous and satisfied, but it doesn't help make the game get better. Stick to facts (e.g., this feature doesn't work) and not conjecture (e.g., the company doesn't care about us).

*"you" meaning anyone in the community.

On the other hand, if your goal isn't to make the game better, then I would suggest your posts will tend to be destructive. In any type of relationship, a point can be reached where it can't be fixed. I hope that isn't the case with anyone here. For example, the community can use someone with Salty's convictions. I accused him of being part of the problem; he can certainly be a big part of the solution instead. What he says has weight with the community.

I also know some were snubbed by the company when they offered to help. That is difficult to let go of considering how the transition has gone. But if you don't, you'll end up tearing down the game when you could be helping to build it back up, albeit from the outside.

I am going to try something, but I will need a lot of help.I am going to make a Wish List post wishing that the company give us at least a weekly update. Now if I'm the lone poster, I don't expect any results. But what if twenty people added their names to the post (and without any snarky comments please!)? The company would have to listen.

Lastly, if you do see a Wish List post that you agree with, say so! We have to let the company know what's important to us so they can make it right. It's our responsibility to do that much. After that, it's up to them...

So what ever happened to "Any publicity is good publicity"?
Don't you want people discussing your business.
If customers are happy, you want them telling others how great things are.
If customers are unhappy, you want them letting you know what you should do to improve your product. (This shows that they care about your product).
The death of a business Is silence.

So what ever happened to "Any publicity is good publicity"?
Don't you want people discussing your business.
If customers are happy, you want them telling others how great things are.
If customers are unhappy, you want them letting you know what you should do to improve your product. (This shows that they care about your product).
The death of a business Is silence.

I certainly agree with most of what Daniel has posted, but remember SOM is a business and not an actor. Thus, bad publicity is not a good thing! Just look at McDonalds** when there were false rumors about what goes into their hamburgers or Toyota when they were having those brake issues.

I still remember seeing a sign in a restaurant from over 45 years ago:

"If you like our food, tell your friends. If you don't, tell us" (i.e., tell us--we really want to know--but please don't shout your displeasure to us across our crowded restaurant!)

**Check out the damage from this publicity at this link: http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/wormburg.asp

Since we're posting examples and not addressing the problems, let me add 1 more.
To SOM, in your spare time someone there should read the book "Oliver Twist", pay close attention to the actions of the man running the work house for the boys.
He should seem very in-tuned with your customer relationship practices.