2017 Finals Vote for CAP/DH/Draft Order

2. Hank O - SKIPPED - Declared not playing - (Open until the Finals league live draft in case he changes his mind)


Hank O is being deferred - he told me he is not able to participate - if Hank O is still not able or willing to play once the Finals is ready for live draft - the Semi-Finalist who - 1. Did not win their league and 2. Achieved the most points (wins including playoff wins) will be offered the 12th Finals spot.

Sorry to hear Hank won't be able to play in the finals. I understand the decision made, given that the leagues start tomorrow, but it really sucks for the guy next in the standings who should rightfully have gotten the finalist bid on merit based on the gauntlet he successfully navigated to finish in 10th place. As it is now, it is little more than a lottery for the 12th spot. It clearly is Moose's call to make and he made it, but it seems, at least to me, that Bernie Ward is more deserving of that spot than whomever meets the criteria for not winning their semifinal yet amassing the most points. Just my two cents.

Had we known about Hank O dropping out in a more timely manner, I would have certainly PREFERRED for BDWard to take the spot. But I just learned about this yesterday and semi-finals teams have been drafted, waivers have been run, final steps at setting lineups, etc - all make this a difficult situation.

I pitched to the board to have SOM give BDWards semi-final team to the #58 qualifier but more than 1 board member was in opposition and felt that the need for the final 12th spot has to come from the semi-finals leagues. They just didn't feel right offering someone else - a team they had no part in drafting and setting. This would have also required SOM's assistance at removing/replacing ownership and/or possibly delaying the league for a week to let the #58 guy have some quality time alone with new his team that he did not pick.

All semi-finalists will be sent an e-mail tomorrow to let them know of the extra spot being made available.

Time just wasn't on our side in this case. I'd still like to try and convince Hank to take his spot back.

I just became aware of Hank being unable to play in the Finals and dropping out. I feel bad for Hank, who had a tremendous BSers 2017 run and finished second, being only behind the Last Druid, among the Finals League qualifiers. It is extremely difficult to make the Finals, and I'm sure he did not make the decision to walk away lightly.

I've been playing the online SOM game for a number of years and have noted that in theme leagues, of which the BSers Tourney is the largest, nothing creates more dissension, strife and drama in the online SOM community than commissioners of such leagues failing to abide by the rules or changing or making up the rules as they go along. Sadly, that is the case here.

Barnstormer rules have long held that if a manager is unable to play in the semis or Finals, the next person in line gets the spot. I happen to be that next person in line and under the long standing rules, I am entitled to a spot in the Finals League. Mighty Moose acknowledges such in the post quoted above. My spot in the Finals should be beyond debate. Yet, now I'm being told that the rule will not be followed for what amounts to little more than logistical reasons.

My qualifications to be in the Finals league are beyond dispute. My 5 qualifying teams all made the playoffs, with 4 of the 5 teams having the league's best record and the other team finishing with the league's second best record. 2 of the 5 teams got rings, while another team went to the Finals. Despite all that success, I finished alone in 10th place in the standings with 504 points, just 2 points behind qualifiers 7-9, who finished in a 3 way tie with 506 points. The margin was so razor thin, that if my team in event 5 had just 1 more win (it lost the division title on a tiebreaker, but got a ring as the wild card), it would have won the division title, giving it an extra 2 points, which, coupled with the extra win, would have given me three more points and sole possession of 7th place in the standings, qualifying me for a team in the Finals league. So with 160+ BSer players, most playing in 6 leagues, and 1000 or so games, including playoffs, I probably missed qualifying by one bad split card or one dice roll.

There is precedent in this matter. Note that several years ago, I quit a semis league for personal reasons after the teams had been drafted and I was promptly replaced by the next highest finisher. I fail to see how this situation is any different. If I was the next highest qualifier for a semis spot, I would jump at the chance, even if it meant taking over another manager's team (I might add that I drafted a very good team that I'm prepared to tweak tonight if required to do so). However, the Board here seems to assume that it would be unfair to ask a manager to take over a team drafted by someone else. My response is that it is less unfair than denying the manager an invitation to the dance to which he is entitled to go, even as a last minute sub. This should be a decision made by the prospective manager, not an assumption by the Board that the next man up wouldn't want to play.

While this is a difficult situation, note that the Board's alleged solution was not completely thought through. With the last semis league being 24 teams, there is an extra round of playoffs. If all wins, including playoff wins, are considered for the highest win total that doesn't get a ring, that gives members of the 24 team semis league a shot at 3 more wins than members of the 12 team semis leagues, a distinct advantage.

Instead of making a bad ad hoc decision, why don't we turn this into a win-win situation for all concerned. While I have a feeling that Hank won't change his mind, Moose can continue to try to persuade Hank to claim his spot in the Finals resulting from Hank's hard earned and well deserved 2nd place finish, but set a short deadline so that everyone knows where they stand WELL BEFORE the semis end. In the meantime, I'll play in the semis league. If Hank changes his mind and decides to play in the Finals, I'll have to get a ring in the semis, just like everybody else, to get to the Finals. If Hank doesn't change his mind and stays out of the Finals, then I go to the Finals, pursuant to the rules, as the next highest finisher. If I'm added to the Finals as Hank's replacement, I'll continue to play in the semis as a "filler" manager. If my team wins the semis league as a filler manager, the runner up would fill the next spot in the Finals League.

I think the above proposal is a win-win situation and the best possible resolution of a difficult situation. Thanks for your consideration. Please advise. - Bernie

I appreciate Moose's position and appreciate the timely response as well as arriving at consensus with, shall we say, a diverse board. Just off the top of my head, what about just letting the semifinals play just as currently constituted, just that Bernie's team is automatically excluded from advancing and if his team wins the finals of his league, then the loser of the that semifinal league becomes one of the 12 finalists. The board members who feel strongly that the 12th finalist be determined by a winner of the semifinal should still be satisfied, it is just that the composition of the first 9 finalists is altered with Bernie replacing Hank. Alternatively, if there is some objection to Bernie running his own team, let Moose run the team or give it to one of the successful new members, someone who didn't play in the Barnstormers but who has a winning pct. over .530. They would be essentially a filler, and I would think would be delighted at the opportunity to run a team. Hell, I'd do it myself if that would help.

P.S. I wrote this before reading Bernie's post. It seems we are largely in agreement here. What if we touched base with Hank, assess if his dropping out is "final" and then advance Bernie to the top 9 and let the semi's play out with one of the above scenarios most acceptable to the board.

If Hank O does not participate B D Ward should be in the finals. We need to follow the guidelines that were set up for this event. If logistics are just too great for Mighty Moose because of the timing of Hank O's decision than I feel B D Ward had an excellent suggestion in how this matter could be resolved in his above post.

Bernie,

No one questioned your "qualifications" to be in the Finals. It's simply a matter of timing and logistics. Even following my first instinct to give your team to #58 required SOM's assistance and their track record at even reading a help desk ticket much less actually successfully acting upon it are ALWAYS in doubt. Especially when it's really urgent.

"The semi-finals starts today" and a lot of time and effort went into ALL of that leagues players and it would be a disruption to make any alterations to that league.

I appreciate every opinion but I think since we do have some time to dwell on this until the Semi-Finals ends, we just leave our options open and not make a final decision on who or how they get the 12th spot.

I'm also asking Hank to drop in here and let us know why he is dropping and I am certainly requesting his reconsideration.

Yes while it is right we have always taken the next in line, we have never had a player drop from the Final 9 before in the history of Barnstormers, and not the with Semi-Finals already carved in stone and ready to go.

$100M salary cap
DH for both choices
Pick #4 in live draft

I agree with Gored and Last Druid that if Hank O doesn't play, then BD Ward should be in the Finals. If that question were decided in the affirmative--that BD Ward gets the #9 slot-- then we're not actually in a hurry to figure out the rest.

If BDW becomes #9, as I think he should, then the fairest and best way to fill the 12th slot is the real issue. I would ask the Board to take some time to think about the best and fairest way to fill that final slot. So here are my thoughts on that subject. Disclaimer: Be aware that I'm an interested party, as a player in Semi-Final #1. One of my concerns is that the players in Semi-Final #1 not be advantaged or disadvantaged by the fact that BDW is a filler in our league.

As I see it, if BDW is considered a filler in the Semi-Finals #1 League, and he doesn't win the championship, then there's no real issue. BDW is #9 and the champions of the 3 semi-final leagues are 10-11-12. This is—statistically—the likeliest outcome, since BDW is just one of 12 excellent managers trying to win a league.

The only challenge, as I see it, comes if BDW does win a ring in Semi-final #1. If BDW is already #9, then that opens up slot #12. The Board can work on finding the best solution to this particular situation. I'm with Druid when he suggests:

What if we touched base with Hank, assess if his dropping out is "final" and then advance Bernie to the top 9 and let the semi's play out with one of the above scenarios most acceptable to the board.

To me, the scenario that makes the most sense is the one already stated by the Board, with a slight tweak. If BDW wins his league, then:

the Semi-Finalist who - 1. Did not win their league and 2. Achieved the most points (wins including playoff wins) will be offered the 12th Finals spot.

My tweak is that the leading manager from the Semi-Final #3 24-team league should have its wins from the first round of playoffs deducted. This simple fix would put total points on a level playing field.

For me, the most important thing to do now is to determine that BDW gets the 9th slot if Hank O really drops out. Then, the Board can take a little time to find the fairest way to fill slot #12, if the need arises. My proposal is just one suggestion. Meanwhile, there will be 11 managers (including me) in Semi-final #1 trying to prevent that need from arising, since we'll all be trying to win a ring in that league for ourselves.

1. The Last Druid - 100 Mil / (80 NO DH 100 DH) / 1st pick
2. Hank O - Not playing
2. labratory - 80 Mil / (80 NO DH 100 NO DH) / 2nd pick
3. DonFESQ - 100 Mil / 80 DH 100 DH (confirmation needed) / 3rd pick
4. hallerose - 100 Mil / 80 DH 100 DH / 4th pick
5. cristano1
6. JohnnyBlazers
7. mjruth
8. tmfw30
9. BDWard
10. Semi-finals winner with most Wins in their Semi-Final League
11. Semi-finals winner with the next most Wins in their Semi-Final League
12. Semi-finals winner with the fewest Wins in their Semi-Final League

cristano1 is up

Running total
100 Mil - 3
80 Mil - 1

As #49 last year I'll tell everyone that will listen, I would've taken Bernie's team with 6 hours notice if necessary to be in the semi's. My opinion (which I know the board is just anxious to hear!) is that Bernie should be awarded his spot in the finals, we hit the pause button on the semi that he's currently in and start down the list of those next in line until someone agrees to take his spot with the stipulation that you get Bernie's squad with a week to tweak it.

I look at it like this, all the guys that made the semi's are solid players, their teams won't suck...and if I was offered the team I'd just look at it like I missed on all my AD selections and I have to go into tweak mode.

I thinks its important for the BS event to follow the rules that are stated now, not thought up after this happened. A weeks pause on one of the semi's is the least disruptive and most fair alternative I can think of.

Tks Moose!
Rosie

I am asking SOM for once in their life to assist us on this urgent matter. Delaying Semi-Finals League #1 and changing ownership. If it happens, it effectively locks out Hank O from changing his mind.

If this is NOT accomplished by first pitch tonight, we are back to where we are now and I will let League #1 continue on as it is. Again, counting on SOM when their track record has been spotty, at best.

I am asking SOM for once in their life to assist us on this urgent matter. Delaying Semi-Finals League #1 and changing ownership. If it happens, it effectively locks out Hank O from changing his mind.

If this is NOT accomplished by first pitch tonight, we are back to where we are now and I will let League #1 continue on as it is. Again, counting on SOM when their track record has been spotty, at best.

So #58 will have a 1 in 12 chance of advancing to the Finals while #34-#57 will have a 1 in 24 chance? BDWard's proposal (that he play his Semis team and have the league runner up advance if need be) seems fairer.