Starting Pitchers 18.1

Discussion for new cards to add; moderated by Rosie2167

Moderator: BC15NY

  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Frank Bailey

  • Posts: 721
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:07 pm

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostWed Jan 17, 2018 12:54 am

Kenny Holtzman 1967 -- 9-0 pitching on Sundays while serving in the National Guard.
Offline

ras040409

  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:59 am

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostWed Jan 17, 2018 2:34 am

Danny Jackson 1988 reds 23-8 was 2nd c.f. young to Orel Hershiser!
Offline

BDWard

  • Posts: 1279
  • Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:04 am

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostWed Jan 17, 2018 10:35 pm

1909 Orval Overall, Cubs 20-11 1.42 .996
In a league that included HOFers Christy Mathewson and 3 Finger Brown, and Howie Camnitz's best season, Overall led the league with 9 shutouts, 205 strikeouts, strikeouts per 9 innings at 6.5 and lowest opponents batting average at .198. In addition, he was in the top 5 in many other pitching categories, including WAR, wins, ERA, WHIP, hits per 9 innings, saves, strikeout to walk ratio, HR ratio, etc.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagu ... ders.shtml

Overall was a right-handed curveball specialist who compiled a lifetime 108-71 record and 2.23 ERA, the eighth best ERA in major-league history.

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/11f64629

Also, there are a handful of ERA title qualifying starting pitchers from the period 1946 through 1979 (that's as far as I researched) with a season ERA of under 2.00 who don't have an ATG SOM card for that season. They are listed below:

1966 Gary Peters, White Sox 12-10 1.98 0.982 League leader in ERA, WHIP
See also:
1967 Gary Peters, White Sox 16-11 2.28 1.069, 2nd in ERA, led league in fewest hits per 9 innings
1963 Gary Peters, White Sox 19-8 2.33 1.070 WHIP, Rookie of the Year, AL leader in ERA.

Gary Peters was one of the finest lefty pitchers in baseball for a brief period in the 1960s before suffering a torn labrum some time in 1968. Despite such, he pitched through it, but was never the same thereafter. A fine hitter, who often pinch hit for the punchless White Sox and even batted as high as 6th in one of Eddie Stanky's lineups, he was consistently in numerous top 10 pitching categories. You can see Peters' 1966 & 1963 cards at the link below:
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/39455/1660/1/60

Note the similarity between Peters' 1966 card (minus the strikeouts) and Chris Sale's 2014 ATG card.

1967 Phil Niekro, Braves 11-9 1.87 1.058 HOFer led NL with career low ERA and had career low H/9. Niekro made 46 appearances, including 20 starts in 1967, so he'll likely be a starter every 5th game. He had 10 complete games in his 20 starts and finished 20 games in his 26 relief appearances, with 9 saves!

1968 Tommy John, White Sox 10-5 1.98 1.038 - Poor Tommy John gets no respect. He leads all modern day pitchers NOT in the HOF with 288 wins except for steroid tainted Roger Clemens. He pitched 26 big league seasons and was the first to come back from the ground breaking surgery that bears his name, but he still can't get in the HOF or even get a decent online Strato card. He's renowned for pitching 26 big league seasons (2nd only to Nolan Ryan) surviving on guts, guile, cunning, moxie, heart and a fastball that couldn't break a pane of glass. In 1968, John was having his best season for a mediocre White Sox team and was 10-5 with a career low 1.98 ERA with about a month left in the season when hot headed Tiger Dick McAuliffe charged the mound after a 3-2 pitch sailed over his head. In the ensuing melee, McAuliffe drove his knee into John's left shoulder, separating it. John was out for the season. Not only did John have a career low 1.98 ERA, but he also had a career lows in WHIP at 1.038 and 6.9 hits per 9 innings. John only pitched 177 innings in 1968, but there are numerous lesser pitchers with cards for their best season, so why not Tommy John?

1968 Bobby Bolin, Giants 10-5 1.99 0.985. Career bests in in ERA, WHIP, HR9, H9 and near career best in BB9. Bolin pitched in relative anonymity his entire career, and in typical fashion, had his best year in 1968 when Bob Gibson & Juan Marichal stole all the NL pitching headlines. Was 2nd in NL in ERA & H9, & 4th in WHIP.

1972 Gary Nolan, Reds 15-5 1.99 1.006 Career bests in ERA, WHIP, W-L%. Led NL in W-L%, 2nd in ERA (trailing only Steve Carlton, 1.97 to 1.99), & BB9, 3rd in WHIP (behind Carlton & Don Sutton) and 8th in H9. Post War and Expansion Reds could use another SP.
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/738901/1670/1/70

Honorable mention for a couple of players who didn't pitch enough innings to qualify for the ERA title:

1973 Steve Rogers, Expos, 10-5, 1.54 ERA, 1.060 6.2 H/9, 3.3 BB/9, in just 134 IP. Made 17 starts for the '73 Expos. Career long Expo, who despite 13 years with the team, starting in 1973, somehow managed to go 158-152 during his career. Very underrated pitcher. Best full season was 1982, 19-8, league best 2.40 ERA, 2nd in NL Cy Young voting. Below is a link to his 1982 card:
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/840297/1680/1/80

1973 Fred Beene, Yankees 6-0 1.68 1.033 Career bests in IP, ERA, WHIP, SO, H9, HR9, BB9. Beene made just 19 appearances in 1973, including 4 starts, and pitched a career high 91 innings. There are numerous SPs in the ATG series who pitched less than Beene's 91 innings, including Paige, Ehmke, Moret, (recently added) DuBose, Pineiro, Duren, Heredia, Sutton and $7+ mil 1946 Max Lanier (6-0 1.93 1.143) who pitched just 6 games and a mere 56 innings. $8+ mil 1882 Guy Hecker pitched just 13 more innings than Beene and $5+ mil 1964 Mel Stottlemyre pitched just 5 more innings. All of the aforementioned players are used regularly or semi-regularly. If they all get cards, why not 1973 Beene?

and speaking of Max Lanier:

1943 Max Lanier, Cardinals 15-7 1.90 Career best ERA & W-L%. Led NL in ERA.
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/587c5c76
Online

ratioman2

  • Posts: 490
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:06 pm

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostThu Jan 18, 2018 10:50 am

Love your write ups BDWard!
Offline

ggyuppie

  • Posts: 856
  • Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:33 am
  • Location: California

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostThu Jan 18, 2018 12:59 pm

Me too. I say yes to Tommy John.
Offline

malamutt2002

  • Posts: 239
  • Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:31 am

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 10:44 am

I would like to nominate Jim Abbott. I know it is off by a year, but his 1991 year was his best, 2.89 ERA, 1.2 WHIP, 3rd in Cy Young vote. Abbott doesn't have a card in the set and it would definitely help out Angels franchise in pitching. Also, It was amazing to watch him play the game and there is definitely a lack of representation for one handed players.
Offline

Rosie2167

  • Posts: 1975
  • Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 3:48 pm

TIMOTHYFOSTER wrote:Hey all:
As far as the 1980's starting pitchers go, it would be great to have 1981 Dennis Martinez in - think he had the most wins (tied) that season and am thinking he doesn't have a card for that year currently?
Also, 1982 or 1983 Tanana and 1986 tommy john would get my votes as well. I went back and forth on getting these adds since they already have cards but think they would most definitely be used by managers.
I don't care enough though to argue about it, especially since the argument on this board seems to be somewhat cyclical. However Rosie is dealing with strato, it's going much better than when I was pounding them back in the day on improving upon the sporting news site so I would definitely keep building upon that relationship as it seems to be benefiting us all. Thanks and have a great rest of your week,
Tim

Thanks for the input Tim. 1986 for John wasn't great but if you're looking for a Yankee card how about 1979 or 80?
79 - 21-9, 2.96era 17CG, 276IP, 1.205whip, CY-2, MVP-22, LL 0.3 HR/9
80 - 22-9, 3.43era, 16CG, 265IP, 1.229, CY-4, LL 0.4 HR/9

Also the 1968 John CHW has been mentioned as well.

I'm copying this string to the 18.1 Starting pitchers forum
Offline

BC15NY

  • Posts: 1263
  • Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:43 am

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 8:24 pm

malamutt2002 wrote:I would like to nominate Jim Abbott. I know it is off by a year, but his 1991 year was his best, 2.89 ERA, 1.2 WHIP, 3rd in Cy Young vote. Abbott doesn't have a card in the set and it would definitely help out Angels franchise in pitching. Also, It was amazing to watch him play the game and there is definitely a lack of representation for one handed players.


I second the 1991 Jim Abbott nomination...he should have a card in the set...
Offline

andycummings65

  • Posts: 14570
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 9:33 pm

BC15NY wrote:
malamutt2002 wrote:I would like to nominate Jim Abbott. I know it is off by a year, but his 1991 year was his best, 2.89 ERA, 1.2 WHIP, 3rd in Cy Young vote. Abbott doesn't have a card in the set and it would definitely help out Angels franchise in pitching. Also, It was amazing to watch him play the game and there is definitely a lack of representation for one handed players.


I second the 1991 Jim Abbott nomination...he should have a card in the set...


Abbott's 1991 probably best. He will be a 7R balance
Offline

ggyuppie

  • Posts: 856
  • Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:33 am
  • Location: California

Re: Starting Pitchers 18.1

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 9:34 pm

On the other hand, Lee Viau may also warrant consideration. A titan, so to speak, of late 19th Century baseball, Viau was the most successful 5'4" pitcher in professional baseball history. It helps that there were only two other equally diminutive pitchers over the decades, but Viau could stand proudly, if not highly, on his record. Just a year or so from leaving Dartmouth, where he was a science student, he made the majors, and In his rookie year in 1888, he threw 387 innings across 42 starts, going 27-14 with a 2.65 ERA and a 1.138 WHIP for the Cincinnati Red Stockings. He hit 20 batsmen that year, and never backed down from confrontation.

His rookie year was his best though and before long he was bouncing around various teams and struggling to stay in the A circuit. Reportedly, a too active relationship with alcohol might have been a major contributor. In 1896 he pitched in the Atlantic League for Paterson, where he had a couple brushes with future Hall of Famers at the start of their careers: his rookie manager was Ed Barrow, the man most responsible for the success of the New York Yankees between 1921 and 1945; and one of his teammates was 22-year-old Honus Wagner, arguably the greatest shortstop of all time. In their biography of Wagner, Dennis and Jeane DeValeria describe an incident that gives a pretty good indication why Viau was no longer in the majors:

[Barrow] quashed open gambling in the stands, but on two different occasions he had to fine and suspend pitchers for taking the mound while drunk. In another episode, former big league pitcher Lee Viau arrived at the park in an altered state. Several players were upset with him for sampling the spirits when they needed him to pitch, and Wagner expressed their displeasure. Viau, only five feet four inches tall but a stocky power pitcher, grabbed a water bucket and emptied it over Wagner's head. An unamused Wagner wrapped his large hands around the pitcher's throat, lifting him off the floor. After a few seconds, Wagner regained his composure and dropped the shaken man. It was a seldom-seen side of the mild-mannered Wagner.

That’s the long and short of it.
PreviousNext

Return to --- ATG Card Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ratioman2, rolandzeut and 4 guests