18.2 Zero Card Poll

Discussion for new cards to add; moderated by Rosie2167

Moderator: BC15NY

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Pick 7

Mulholland Terry* 1993 PHI S7 0 20 1.14 12-9 3.25 191 116 8.3 0.9 5.5 1L
2
0%
Hernandez Roberto 1992 CHW R2/3 0 17 0.915 7-3 12 1.65 71 68 5.7 0.5 8.6 1R
15
3%
Jones Doug 1997 MIL R1/6 0 16 0.884 6-6 36 2.02 80 82 6.9 0.4 9.2 1R
17
4%
Hampton Mike* 1999 HOU S7* 0 16 1.28 22-4 2.9 239 177 7.8 0.5 6.7 7L
14
3%
Jackson Danny* 1988 CIN S8* 0 15 1.063 23-8 2.73 260 161 7.1 0.4 5.6 1R
8
2%
Dickey RA 2012 NYM S7* 0 15 1.05 20-6 2.73 233 230 7.4 0.9 8.9 1R
14
3%
Black Bud* 1984 KCR S7* 0 15 1.128 17-12 3.12 257 140 7.9 0.8 4.9 2L
3
1%
Groom Buddy* 2002 BAL R1/1 0 14 0.903 3-2 2 1.6 62 48 6.4 0.6 7 1L
16
4%
Williams Stan 1970 MIN R3/4 0 14 1.032 10-1 15 1.99 113 76 6.8 0.6 6 1R
8
2%
Martinez Ramon 1990 DOD S7* 0 14 1.101 20-6 2.92 234 223 7 1 9 5R
10
2%
Vazquez Javier 2003 EXP S7* 0 14 1.105 13-12 3.24 230 241 7.7 1.1 9.4 E
8
2%
Gubicza Mark 1988 KCR S8* 0 14 1.187 20-8 2.70 269 183 7.9 0.4 6 2R
6
1%
Hentgen Pat 1996 TOR S7* 0 14 1.25 20-10 3.22 265 177 8.1 0.7 6.0 1R
7
2%
Betancourt Rafael 2007 CLV R2/2 0 13 0.76 5-1 3 1.47 79 80 5.8 0.5 9.1 6R
17
4%
Deleon Jose 1989 STL S7* 0 13 1.03 16-12 3.05 244 201 6.4 0.6 7.4 6R
2
0%
Cain Matt 2011 GIA S7* 0 13 1.083 12-11 2.88 221 179 7.2 0.4 7.3 6L
5
1%
Agosto Juan* 1988 HOU R2/1 0 13 1.13 10-2 4 2.26 91 33 7.3 0.6 3.2 9L
1
0%
Neagle Denny* 1997 BRV S7* 0 13 1.08 20-5 2.97 233 172 7.9 0.7 6.6 2R
6
1%
Wohlers Mark 1995 BRV R1/5 0 12 1.16 7-3 25 2.09 64 90 7.1 0.3 12.5 3R
4
1%
Braxton Garland* 1928 WAS S7*/5/1 0 10 1.01 13-11 6 2.51 218 94 7.3 0.3 3.9 E
4
1%
Frisella Dan 1971 NYM R3/4 0 10 1.169 8-5 12 1.99 90 93 7.5 0.6 9.2 7L
4
1%
Abbott Jim* 1991 CAL S7* 0 10 1.214 18-11 2.89 243 158 8.2 0.5 5.9 7R
20
5%
Scott Jim 1913 CHW S7*/5/0 0 9 1.082 20-21 1.90 312 158 7.3 0.1 4.6 E
3
1%
McCatty Steve 1981 ATH S9 0 9 1.08 14-7 2.33 185 91 6.8 0.6 4.4 1L
6
1%
Wolff Roger 1945 WAS S8*/5/0 0 7 1.012 20-10 2.12 250 108 7.2 0.3 3.9 E
5
1%
Hunter Torii 2007 MIN CF 0 19 287 334 505 839 123 650 18 45 1 28 107 1L
18
4%
Clements* Jack 1895 PHI C 0 17 394 446 612 1058 171 344 3 27 2 13 75 2R
19
4%
Jorgensen* Mike 1974 MON 1B LF/RF 0 17 310 444 488 931 156 366 3 16 1 11 59 E
12
3%
Nixon** Otis 1991 BRV OF 0 17 297 371 327 698 94 460 72 10 1 26 1L
10
2%
Martinez* Tino 1997 NYY 1B 0 16 296 371 577 948 143 685 31 2 44 141 3R
12
3%
Phillips Brandon 2011 CIN 2B 0 16 300 353 457 810 118 675 14 38 2 18 82 E
9
2%
Magadan* Dave 1990 NYM 1B 3B 0 16 328 417 457 874 141 541 28 6 6 72 5R
5
1%
Slaught Don 1992 PIT C 0 16 345 384 482 866 145 285 2 17 3 4 37 5R
5
1%
Klesko* Ryan 2002 SD 1B RF 0 16 300 388 537 925 152 625 39 1 29 95 1R
11
2%
Aurilla Rich 2001 GIA SS 0 15 324 369 572 941 146 689 37 5 37 97 2L
14
3%
Lockman* Whitey 1948 GIA CF LF 0 15 286 361 454 815 118 659 8 24 10 18 59 E
3
1%
Gagne Greg 1991 MIN SS 0 15 265 310 395 705 90 447 11 23 3 8 42 2L
5
1%
Dunn Adam 2004 CIN 1B LF 0 14 266 388 569 956 147 681 34 46 102 2R
7
2%
Lieberthal Mike 1999 PHI C 0 14 300 363 551 914 124 554 33 31 96 5L
7
2%
Young Michael 2008 TEX SS 0 14 284 339 402 741 95 708 10 36 2 12 82 1L
11
2%
Crawford* Willie 1973 DOD LF RF/CF 0 14 295 396 453 849 140 543 12 26 2 14 66 6R
6
1%
Mora Melvin 2004 BAL 3B 0 13 340 419 562 981 155 636 11 41 27 104 1R
18
4%
Tiernan* Mike 1896 GIA RF 0 13 369 452 516 968 158 605 35 24 16 7 89 2R
5
1%
Spiers* Bill 1997 HOU 3B 1B 0 13 320 438 481 919 145 355 10 27 4 4 48 3R
18
4%
Selbach Kip 1895 WAS LF/RF SS 2B 0 13 324 406 486 892 130 597 31 22 22 6 55 E
9
2%
Gilkey Bernard 1996 NYM LF 0 12 317 393 562 955 155 656 17 44 3 30 117 1L
16
4%
Hargrave Bubbles 1926 CIN C 0 12 353 406 525 930 152 351 22 8 6 62 2L
1
0%
Duncan Mariano 1990 CIN 2B LF 0 12 306 345 476 821 120 435 13 22 11 10 55 8L
5
1%
Douthit Taylor 1929 STL OF 0 11 336 416 471 888 117 709 8 42 7 9 62 E
7
2%
Bilko Steve 1961 CAL 1B RF 0 10 279 395 544 940 139 354 16 1 20 59 5L
4
1%
 
Total votes : 442
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Rosie2167

  • Posts: 1975
  • Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 5:31 pm

***Mistake alert. Bubbles Hargrave 1923 card was voted in in our 18.1 add. While this vote includes his '26 card he still shouldn't be in this poll as he technically has a card now, AND we just voted him in. Thanks and my apologies***

Ok let's vote on 18.2...aka 18.1.2. Voting is open for 1 week, until Thursday, April 26th @ 5pm PST.

I've already submitted...
Dave Righetti 1981 NYY SP
Rick Wise 1971 PHI SP
Benito Santiago 1987 SD C
Mike LaValliere 1987 PIT C
Larry Parrish 1979 MON 3B

So that leaves us with 20 spots. 10 upgraded cards and 10 cards from guys that have zero in the set. This was a tough grouping to whittle down, so many deserving players. So right up front, many worthy players were left off.

Each list of 50 contains 25 pitchers/25 batters. BUT you will be voting on each grouping (Upgrades/Zero) in whole. So there's potential for 2 pitchers and 8 batters to come out of one of the groupings.

Some of the parameters I used to get to these 50 upgraded and 50 zero carded nominations.
*I used years in their career as my top filter
*For the upgraded list I also compared their current ATG cards with the nominated cards. If those cards weren't available in one of the other sets I used the Card Viewer to make the comparisons.
*I eliminated all current players for this voting round as I had to do something to help get to the 50 per poll
*If the card was up for a recent vote and didn't do all that great I weighed that as well and mostly eliminated them for this vote

In the polls you will notice a bunch of data per nominee, the keys are below...
The data headers for pitchers
Last / First / Year / Franchise / Position / Cards currently in ATG / $$ Cards in ATG / Years in Career / WHIP / W-L / SVS / ERA / INN / SO / H per9 / HR per9 / SO per9 / BAL

The data headers for batters
Last / First / Year / Franchise / Position / Cards currently in ATG / $$ Cards in ATG / Years in Career / AVE / OBP / SLG / OPS / OPS+ / AB+BB / SB / 2B / 3B / HR / RBI / BAL

MORE INFO:
If you really want to dive in I also created a google docs that contains all the available links to the cards AND for those nominees that didn't have a card somewhere in SOM, I transcribed the data from Card Viewer...hopefully painting enough of a picture to put them on an even playing field with the cards everyone can see. The data in those cells reads like this...
BB / 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / BP4 for each side. There is also a total for both OBP chances and Total bases. BPHR are NOT included. Figured you guys could do some math if you really wanted to.

Please note there 2 tabs, one for each grouping. Usability hint; take the zoom level down to 75%.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

As always there is a high likelihood I messed something up. Feel free to post any corrections and I'll go in a change it if I can. Also post any additional player information you see fit, lobbying is legal.
NOW VOTE!
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Rosie2167

  • Posts: 1975
  • Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Below are the links for all the cards we can see. For the numeric details on the players that don't have linked cards go to the google docs sheet listed above.

Last First Year Franchse Position Link to card
Mulholland Terry* 1993 PHI S7 http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3920/1690/1/90
Hernandez Roberto 1992 CHW R2/3
Jones Doug 1997 MIL R1/6
Hampton Mike* 1999 HOU S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3563/1690/1/90
Jackson Danny* 1988 CIN S8* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/835822/1680/1/80
Dickey RA 2012 NYM S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90697/2012/1/3012
Black Bud* 1984 KCR S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/830922/1680/1/80
Groom Buddy* 2002 BAL R1/1
Williams Stan 1970 MIN R3/4
Martinez Ramon 1990 DOD S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3621/1690/1/90
Vazquez Javier 2003 EXP S7*
Gubicza Mark 1988 KCR S8* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/834734/1680/1/80
Hentgen Pat 1996 TOR S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3312/1690/1/90
Betancourt Rafael 2007 CLV R2/2 http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90043/2007/1/2007
Deleon Jose 1989 STL S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/832927/1680/1/80
Cain Matt 2011 GIA S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/90087/2011/1/3011
Agosto Juan* 1988 HOU R2/1 http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/830078/1680/1/80
Neagle Denny* 1997 BRV S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3811/1690/1/90
Wohlers Mark 1995 BRV R1/5 http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3373/1690/1/90
Braxton Garland* 1928 WAS S7*/5/1
Frisella Dan 1971 NYM R3/4 http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/734036/1670/1/70
Abbott Jim* 1991 CAL S7* http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/2914/1690/1/90
Scott Jim 1913 CHW S7*/5/0
McCatty Steve 1981 ATH S9
Wolff Roger 1945 WAS S8*/5/0


Last First Year Franchse Position Link to card
Hunter Torii 2007 MIN CF http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/545/2007/1/2007
Clements* Jack 1895 PHI C
Jorgensen* Mike 1974 MON 1B LF/RF http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/736118/1670/1/70
Nixon** Otis 1991 BRV OF
Martinez* Tino 1997 NYY 1B
Phillips Brandon 2011 CIN 2B http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/906/2011/1/3011
Magadan* Dave 1990 NYM 1B 3B
Slaught Don 1992 PIT C http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/41149/1690/1/90
Klesko* Ryan 2002 SD 1B RF
Aurilla Rich 2001 GIA SS
Lockman* Whitey 1948 GIA CF LF
Gagne Greg 1991 MIN SS
Dunn Adam 2004 CIN 1B LF
Lieberthal Mike 1999 PHI C http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/655/1999/1/1999
Young Michael 2008 TEX SS http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/1269/2008/1/2008
Crawford* Willie 1973 DOD LF RF/CF http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/732535/1670/1/70
Mora Melvin 2004 BAL 3B
Tiernan* Mike 1896 GIA RF
Spiers* Bill 1997 HOU 3B 1B http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3741/1690/1/90
Selbach Kip 1895 WAS LF/RF SS 2B
Gilkey Bernard 1996 NYM LF http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/3946/1690/1/90
Hargrave Bubbles 1926 CIN C
Duncan Mariano 1990 CIN 2B LF http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/8482/1690/1/90
Douthit Taylor 1929 STL OF
Bilko Steve 1961 CAL 1B RF
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BDWard

  • Posts: 1277
  • Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:04 am

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 3:03 am

Rosie: Technically, Bubbles Hargrave doesn't have a card yet, but his 1923 card was elected as part of the 18.1 card add, so it's a little puzzling that his 1926 card is on the zero card ballot, since he has a pending card addition to the ATG set.

If you want to replace Bubbles on the ballot with another catcher, the highly underrated and often overlooked Paul Lo Duca had a very good season in 2001:

2001 Paul Lo Duca, C, Dodgers. 320 25 90 .374 .543 .917. Career highs in BA, HR, RBI, OBP, SLG, TB, OPS & OPS+. 2(-1) e3, T-1-7 (pb-1). As a bonus, he is a respectable 3e14 at 1B.

If you aren't limited to a catcher, 2007 Aaron Rowand merits consideration:

2007 Aaron Rowand, CF, Phillies .309 27 89 .374 .515 .889. Career highs in HITS, DO, HR, RBI, OBP, TB. Near career highs in BA, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Gold Glove winner. CF 1(0)e2
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/1006/2007/1/20714
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Rosie2167

  • Posts: 1975
  • Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 8:23 am

BDWard wrote:Rosie: Technically, Bubbles Hargrave doesn't have a card yet, but his 1923 card was elected as part of the 18.1 card add, so it's a little puzzling that his 1926 card is on the zero card ballot, since he has a pending card addition to the ATG set.

If you want to replace Bubbles on the ballot with another catcher, the highly underrated and often overlooked Paul Lo Duca had a very good season in 2001:

2001 Paul Lo Duca, C, Dodgers. 320 25 90 .374 .543 .917. Career highs in BA, HR, RBI, OBP, SLG, TB, OPS & OPS+. 2(-1) e3, T-1-7 (pb-1). As a bonus, he is a respectable 3e14 at 1B.

If you aren't limited to a catcher, 2007 Aaron Rowand merits consideration:

2007 Aaron Rowand, CF, Phillies .309 27 89 .374 .515 .889. Career highs in HITS, DO, HR, RBI, OBP, TB. Near career highs in BA, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Gold Glove winner. CF 1(0)e2
http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/1006/2007/1/20714

Damn! Thanks for the catch. Was using a new spreadsheet that contains all the nominees and previous adds, sorted out the adds but neglected to double check any dups. I can't edit the poll without resetting it so at this point we'll just go with what we have and I'll loudly post my mistake to try and avoid Bubbles getting any votes.
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pbebus

  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 3:50 am

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Michael Young already has a card (2002). Not a good one, but it is one.
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FRANKMANSUETO

  • Posts: 5124
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:59 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 8:51 am

To add to the Michael Young message it's NOT that good of a card being voted on and doesn't represent the hitter he was. His 2009 season would have been a much better choice. Granted it is as a 3B.

http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/1269/2009/1/2009

2011 card as more of a DH.

http://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/1269/2011/1/2011
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andycummings65

  • Posts: 14530
  • Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 2:28 pm

Young is in a bad spot. Want one of his better offensive years? He'll be a 3 at SS. Want him to be a 2 at SS? His offensive seasons in those years are not up to his standards. Or go with the card Frank suggested, but he'll be playing 3b, and he'll be kind of an average offensive 3b. His value is as a middle infielder........
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Rosie2167

  • Posts: 1975
  • Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 2:48 pm

pbebus wrote:Not to burst anyone's bubble, but Michael Young already has a card (2002). Not a good one, but it is one.

jeez I'm really underperforming this time around. sorry about missing Young's other card, I'll recheck my master spreadsheet to avoid future mishaps.
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pbebus

  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:08 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 3:04 pm

Well, I don't think anyone would object to him having a better card. It's kind of a shame that such a good player has a very mediocre card.
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STEVE F

  • Posts: 4253
  • Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: 18.2 Zero Card Poll

PostSun Apr 22, 2018 3:39 pm

andycummings65 wrote:Young is in a bad spot. Want one of his better offensive years? He'll be a 3 at SS. Want him to be a 2 at SS? His offensive seasons in those years are not up to his standards. Or go with the card Frank suggested, but he'll be playing 3b, and he'll be kind of an average offensive 3b. His value is as a middle infielder........

Yep. There is no card that represents his true value: A good hitter who can play multiple positions decent/well.
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