19.2 Nominations are Open!

1917 Ty Cobb. led the league in almost every category without injury problems

Welcome to the 19.2 Nomination thread.

All MLB cards from 1871-2017 are eligible per Strat.
(2018 cards will be eligible for 19.4)

Our 19.2 parameters are as follows.
1. One nomination per member only
2. When we hit 40 unique nominations we will begin voting
3. If we get more than 40 those missing the cut will roll to 19.3
4. We will have one poll of 50 cards; the top 25 will be added
5. Any ties for the 25th spot will automatically be added in 19.3
6. Next "x" highest vote getters will get another shot in 19.3

Please submit nominations in a 'Year Player Team Position Comments' format.

Thanks,
Bill

The 10 cards below will be included in the 50-card 19.2 poll.
1954 Yogi Berra NYY C/3b
1968 Stan Bahnsen NYY SP
1967 Orlando Cepeda STL 1b
1993 Paul Molitor Toronto 1b
1991 Otis Nixon ATL OF
1969 Andy Messersmith Angels SP/RP
1990 Dave Magadan Mets 1b/3b
1970 Alex Johnson CAL LF
1952 Ferris Fain PHA 1b
1964 Bob Allison MIN OF/1b

1. 1961 Eddie Mathews MLN 3b (Bunze0)
2. 2014 Johnny Cueto CIN SP 20-9 WHIP .96, ERA 2.25, 2nd in Cy Young vote, would be 1st card for Cueto (gator39)
3. 1981 Kirk Gibson Det Of - Strike shortened season. Gibby batted .328, OB of .369, OPS of .849. He also hit 9 home runs in only 290 at bats. He stole 17 bases. He led Detroit to a near Divison title, only to be beaten by the Brewers on the last day. (DanTheMan)
4. 2012 Jake McGee TB LHRP 1.95era 0.795whip 9R lefty gives up nothing to righties and decent vs lefties. Great card!! Need more Rays cards!
5. 1920 Buck Weaver CHA 3b. By far Bucky's best year. .331 BA and bulletproof injury. Let's get a Bucky card we can use! John Cusack thanks you.
6. 2012 Craig Kimbrel ATL https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/91502/2012/1/2012 How is it that one of the better RPs isn't represented.
7. 1972 Bill Stoneman MON SP. 251 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.26 WHIP. Expos first star pitcher, (threw a no-hitter in their 9th game ever), is only represented by his 1969 card from Montreal's inaugural season. He had more IP, W and K in 1971, but 1972 was his best season. This guy deserves better!
8. 1923 Tris Speaker CF. His best offensive season. 133 runs scored, league leading 130 rbi's. 59 Doubles (his best season for the all time doubles leader) 11 Triples and a lifetime best 17 HR's. Hit: .380 .469 .610 1.079. One of the few mega superstars with only two cards.
9. 2000 Steve Finley ARZ CF. Arizona has no cards that qualify at cf. 35hr's and a gold glove with decent speed.
10.1962 Frank Robinson, REDS, OF, Bats R .342/.421/.624/1.045, 51 DO, 39 HR, 136 RBI. Arguably Robinson's best season. Followed up '61 MVP with an even better season in '62! Career highs in G, BA, H, R, 2B, RBI, OBP & TB. 2nd career bests in HR, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Bulletproof.
11. 1985 Donnie Moore Angels RP. Was treated shamefully by fans in real life. Let's do right by him in Strat.
12. 1974 Johnny Bench, CIN, 129 RBI, 33 HR, 700+ PA!..how about a every game starter behind the plate
13. 1947 Harry Walker, STL/PHI, .363/.436/.487, led league in triples (16), BA & OBP, 150 OPS+, 9th in MVP, CF/1B/LF
14. 1960 Lindy McDaniel, STL/CHC/NYY,12-4, 2.09 ERA, .937 WHP, CYA-3, MVP-5, best year, good add for post franchise
15. 2007 Chipper Jones ATL .337/.425/.604 3b 2-e19 Better and think Best Chipper card - def better than current one(s)
16. (Hallerose)
17. 1978 Amos Otis, Royals, CF 2(-4) e3 .298/.380/.525/.905, 22 HR, 96 RBI, 32 SBs. Career highs in RBI, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Near career highs in BA, BB, HR. Unlike other Otis cards, this is a well balanced card with decent OBP, that could bat nearly anywhere in the lineup, including leadoff.
18. 1965 Don Pavletich Reds C
19. 2013 Matt "Batman" Harvey METS, SP 178 innings, 191 KO, .931 WHIP, lowest homeruns per 9 in league
20. 2001 Cliff Floyd, FLA. LF, EVEN, 3(0)e9, .317/.390/ .578, 44 doubles, 31HR, 103 RBI- Gives FLA some help building a better team
21. 1936 Arky Vaughan PGH SS, .335 BA, .453 OBP, .474 SA, 30 doubles, 11 triples, 9 homers. 600-plus plate appearances.
22. 1980 Mike Easler (LF/RF) Pirates (.338/.396/.583) better card than that NYY one we have
23. 1972 Billy Williams, Cubs, LF 3(0), Bats L .333/.398/.606/1.005, 37 HR, 122 RBI. Career highs in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Near career highs in HR & RBI. Led League in BA, SLG, OPS, OPS+ & TB. Finished 2nd in MVP voting to Johnny Bench for the 2nd time in 3 years. It's time to give HOFer Sweet Swingin' Billy his best card.
24. 2000 Richard Hidalgo Houston CF-2(-4)e8 RF 1e8 - LF 1e8. I went through the top 250 single season slugging percentages of all time, and by and large almost every season is represented with a card (many players appear multiple times) - But, excluding 2018 season, there are only two players who have no card. Stanton is the other, and I figure he's too obvious to be forgotten. This is number 134. Plus an OF corner 1 (-4). 314/391/636. Houston franchise has NO corner OF 1.
25. 2017 Corey Kluber SP CLE 18-4 IP203.2 BB36 SO265 ERA2.25 WHIP0.87 Balance E No card
26.1917 Ty Cobb. led the league in almost every category without injury problems
27.
28.
29.
30.
31.
32.
33.
34.
35.
36.
37.
38.
39.
40.

Note: #16 slot is being held for hallerose to make a replacement nomination. 1884 Fred Dunlap has been removed. 1884 Union Association is not considered to be MLB.

why has the nomination been removed? does the card not exist?

Welcome to the 19.2 Nomination thread.

All MLB cards from 1871-2017 are eligible per Strat.
(2018 cards will be eligible for 19.4)

Our 19.2 parameters are as follows.
1. One nomination per member only
2. When we hit 40 unique nominations we will begin voting
3. If we get more than 40 those missing the cut will roll to 19.3
4. We will have one poll of 50 cards; the top 25 will be added
5. Any ties for the 25th spot will automatically be added in 19.3
6. Next "x" highest vote getters will get another shot in 19.3

Please submit nominations in a 'Year Player Team Position Comments' format.

Thanks,
Bill

The 10 cards below will be included in the 50-card 19.2 poll.
1954 Yogi Berra NYY C/3b
1968 Stan Bahnsen NYY SP
1967 Orlando Cepeda STL 1b
1993 Paul Molitor Toronto 1b
1991 Otis Nixon ATL OF
1969 Andy Messersmith Angels SP/RP
1990 Dave Magadan Mets 1b/3b
1970 Alex Johnson CAL LF
1952 Ferris Fain PHA 1b
1964 Bob Allison MIN OF/1b

1. 1961 Eddie Mathews MLN 3b (Bunze0)
2. 2014 Johnny Cueto CIN SP 20-9 WHIP .96, ERA 2.25, 2nd in Cy Young vote, would be 1st card for Cueto (gator39)
3. 1981 Kirk Gibson Det Of - Strike shortened season. Gibby batted .328, OB of .369, OPS of .849. He also hit 9 home runs in only 290 at bats. He stole 17 bases. He led Detroit to a near Divison title, only to be beaten by the Brewers on the last day. (DanTheMan)
4. 2012 Jake McGee TB LHRP 1.95era 0.795whip 9R lefty gives up nothing to righties and decent vs lefties. Great card!! Need more Rays cards!
5. 1920 Buck Weaver CHA 3b. By far Bucky's best year. .331 BA and bulletproof injury. Let's get a Bucky card we can use! John Cusack thanks you.
6. 2012 Craig Kimbrel ATL https://365.strat-o-matic.com/player/91502/2012/1/2012 How is it that one of the better RPs isn't represented.
7. 1972 Bill Stoneman MON SP. 251 IP, 2.98 ERA, 1.26 WHIP. Expos first star pitcher, (threw a no-hitter in their 9th game ever), is only represented by his 1969 card from Montreal's inaugural season. He had more IP, W and K in 1971, but 1972 was his best season. This guy deserves better!
8. 1923 Tris Speaker CF. His best offensive season. 133 runs scored, league leading 130 rbi's. 59 Doubles (his best season for the all time doubles leader) 11 Triples and a lifetime best 17 HR's. Hit: .380 .469 .610 1.079. One of the few mega superstars with only two cards.
9. 2000 Steve Finley ARZ CF. Arizona has no cards that qualify at cf. 35hr's and a gold glove with decent speed.
10.1962 Frank Robinson, REDS, OF, Bats R .342/.421/.624/1.045, 51 DO, 39 HR, 136 RBI. Arguably Robinson's best season. Followed up '61 MVP with an even better season in '62! Career highs in G, BA, H, R, 2B, RBI, OBP & TB. 2nd career bests in HR, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Bulletproof.
11. 1985 Donnie Moore Angels RP. Was treated shamefully by fans in real life. Let's do right by him in Strat.
12. 1974 Johnny Bench, CIN, 129 RBI, 33 HR, 700+ PA!..how about a every game starter behind the plate
13. 1947 Harry Walker, STL/PHI, .363/.436/.487, led league in triples (16), BA & OBP, 150 OPS+, 9th in MVP, CF/1B/LF
14. 1960 Lindy McDaniel, STL/CHC/NYY,12-4, 2.09 ERA, .937 WHP, CYA-3, MVP-5, best year, good add for post franchise
15. 2007 Chipper Jones ATL .337/.425/.604 3b 2-e19 Better and think Best Chipper card - def better than current one(s)
16. (Hallerose)
17. 1978 Amos Otis, Royals, CF 2(-4) e3 .298/.380/.525/.905, 22 HR, 96 RBI, 32 SBs. Career highs in RBI, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Near career highs in BA, BB, HR. Unlike other Otis cards, this is a well balanced card with decent OBP, that could bat nearly anywhere in the lineup, including leadoff.
18. 1965 Don Pavletich Reds C
19. 2013 Matt "Batman" Harvey METS, SP 178 innings, 191 KO, .931 WHIP, lowest homeruns per 9 in league
20. 2001 Cliff Floyd, FLA. LF, EVEN, 3(0)e9, .317/.390/ .578, 44 doubles, 31HR, 103 RBI- Gives FLA some help building a better team
21. 1936 Arky Vaughan PGH SS, .335 BA, .453 OBP, .474 SA, 30 doubles, 11 triples, 9 homers. 600-plus plate appearances.
22. 1980 Mike Easler (LF/RF) Pirates (.338/.396/.583) better card than that NYY one we have
23. 1972 Billy Williams, Cubs, LF 3(0), Bats L .333/.398/.606/1.005, 37 HR, 122 RBI. Career highs in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS & OPS+. Near career highs in HR & RBI. Led League in BA, SLG, OPS, OPS+ & TB. Finished 2nd in MVP voting to Johnny Bench for the 2nd time in 3 years. It's time to give HOFer Sweet Swingin' Billy his best card.
24. 2000 Richard Hidalgo Houston CF-2(-4)e8 RF 1e8 - LF 1e8. I went through the top 250 single season slugging percentages of all time, and by and large almost every season is represented with a card (many players appear multiple times) - But, excluding 2018 season, there are only two players who have no card. Stanton is the other, and I figure he's too obvious to be forgotten. This is number 134. Plus an OF corner 1 (-4). 314/391/636. Houston franchise has NO corner OF 1.
25. 2017 Corey Kluber SP CLE 18-4 IP203.2 BB36 SO265 ERA2.25 WHIP0.87 Balance E No card
26.1917 Ty Cobb. led the league in almost every category without injury problems
27.1977 Gary Carter .284 avg. 31 hr- .356 obp- 525 slg.- 881 ops- 8l
28.
29.
30.
31.
32.
33.
34.
35.
36.
37.
38.
39.
40.

Note: #16 slot is being held for hallerose to make a replacement nomination. 1884 Fred Dunlap has been removed. 1884 Union Association is not considered to be MLB.

In November 1883, Dunlap signed a contract to play for the St. Louis Maroons in the new Union Association. He was the biggest star lured to the new league. His contract paid Dunlap a salary of $3,400 (including $1,000 paid in advance),[13] the highest salary paid to any baseball player at that time.[4] He remained the highest paid baseball player every year from 1884 to 1889.[14]


In a 2008 book using modern sabermetric methods, author William F. McNeil concluded that Dunlap was the best offensive second baseman, the second best defensive second baseman, and the best overall second baseman of the 19th century.[11] Dunlap's career range factor of 6.31 at second base still ranks as the fifth highest in the history of Major League Baseball.[38]

So you are the highest paid player in baseball (for 6 years) and you are regarded by some as the best 2nd baseman of your era, but you are not a "professional" enough? Is Ross Barnes 1873 season as a 2nd baseman materially different?

Meanwhile also in 1884, Charles Radbourn pitches 678 innings, wins 59 games, with 73 complete games for a team that goes 84-28, and that is considered a major league and he gets a card?

I don't have a problem with it.

That being said... Where's Sadaharu Oh?

I don't have a problem with it.

That being said... Where's Sadaharu Oh?

And what's next, Roger Freed?

In November 1883, Dunlap signed a contract to play for the St. Louis Maroons in the new Union Association. He was the biggest star lured to the new league. His contract paid Dunlap a salary of $3,400 (including $1,000 paid in advance),[13] the highest salary paid to any baseball player at that time.[4] He remained the highest paid baseball player every year from 1884 to 1889.[14]


In a 2008 book using modern sabermetric methods, author William F. McNeil concluded that Dunlap was the best offensive second baseman, the second best defensive second baseman, and the best overall second baseman of the 19th century.[11] Dunlap's career range factor of 6.31 at second base still ranks as the fifth highest in the history of Major League Baseball.[38]

So you are the highest paid player in baseball (for 6 years) and you are regarded by some as the best 2nd baseman of your era, but you are not a "professional" enough? Is Ross Barnes 1873 season as a 2nd baseman materially different?

Meanwhile also in 1884, Charles Radbourn pitches 678 innings, wins 59 games, with 73 complete games for a team that goes 84-28, and that is considered a major league and he gets a card?

I have no grief with Dunlap, only his 1884 season. He played 10 years in the National League, with some very good to excellent stats (120 OPS+). Considering that he never really came anywhere near to matching his 1884 season, why not choose a more representative year from his National League career? 1881 or 1883 come to mind.

You know that the Maroons packed their team -- the commissioner of the league owned the Maroons and made sure that his was the best ... by far. Four teams in the league played 12 games before going bust. The Maroons exceeded the league average in BA by 50 points, OBP by 50 points, SLG by 130 points. The team ERA+ was 155 (league average 101). This is the 1927 Yankees on steroids.

Bill James' argument against considering the Union Association as a "major" league is pretty compelling. I urge you all to read it in its entirety:

https://books.google.fr/books?id=3uSbqUm8hSAC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=union+association+baseball&source=bl&ots=1np1o81Csj&sig=ACfU3U2UpHS567R3yXr0l3QmasOXTXRaNw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCg9Wmn8zgAhUi3uAKHb2wAGoQ6AEwB3oECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=union%20association%20baseball&f=false

Summing up some of his points

-- only five teams actually played a full schedule, other teams appear and disappear with disarming regularity
-- of the 272 players in the league, 107 never played in other "major" league again or before (39%) One of the leading players in the league, Harry Moore (first in games played, third in BA and hits), never played in another major league before or after
-- Fred Dunlap, the confirmed star of the league, batted .412; he had a career BA in the NL of .277; in 1885 he batted .270
-- the St. Louis Maroons survived to be absorbed into the NL the following season. They added better players and finished LAST in the NL

At best, the Union Association was a minor league (and James would argue not a very good one compared to the International League or the PCL); at worst, it could be compared to the 1995 lockout teams or the 1946 Mexican League.

By all means, bring in Dunlap from his NL career. But please, no to the Union Association.

so Is the answer that it wasn't an MLB season rather than the fact that its from 1884?

if so Im going to bow out of the discussion, b/c I sorta get that.

Sadaharu OH!!! no relation to Sandra O as far as I know

So all Baseball encylopedias and the baseball hall of fame are wrong?

https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/mccarthy-tommy
McCarthy is the only member of the Hall of Fame to have played in the short-lived Union Association, where he began his professional career as a 19-year-old with the Boston Reds in 1884.