Deadball Hitters--NO CARD Edition

Many have said that we don't know what we are getting when we nominate cards, so I've taken some time to put some stats together from some cards, using Diamond Dope and Veterans 1975 for the park, since it's kind of neutral (10,10,10,10). I asked Bill for his permission/blessing to do this. So I'll be posting some card add ideas, thoughts, etc to hopefully keep interest up and give folks some stuff to actually discuss on the boards.

1909 Al Burch, BKN, Bats L, E Balance, CF-1(-3)e16, RF-1(-3)e16, LF-1(-3)e16), 1b-4e25, Steal: 4-6,12/-(18-13)
LH--2.9 2b, 0.8 3b, 0 HR, 7 BB 329/379/373, .751 OPS
RH--3 2b, 0.8 3b, 0 HR, 7 BB 339/388/384, .771 OPS
Good defensive option, higher dollar scrub, plays all 3 OF spots as a 1

1911 Birdie Cree, NYY, Bats R, 3L Balance, LF-1(-2)e11, CF-2(-2)e11, RF-2(-2)e11, 2b-4e71, SS-4e88
LH--14.6 2b, 7.8 3b, 3 HR, 8 BB 489/531/833, 1.415 OPS
RH--5.4 2b, 6.5 3b, 0.6 HR, 12 BB 442/509/654, 1.163 OPS
Early Highlander favorite, Good combination of defense and hitting. Finished 6th in MVP vote.
db NYY need some help.

1899 Bill Lange, CHC, Bats R, 1L Balance, CF-1(-2)e13
LH--5.4 2b, 3.2 3b, 0.15 HR, 12 BB 372/442/500, .942 OPS
RH--5.1 2b, 2 3b, 0.15 HR, 10 BB 344/405/442, .847 OPS
Gives db Cubs a 1 in CF

Fred Tenney - 1899 Boston Bats(L) Balance(1R) 1B-1e30 .347/.411/.439
Paul Hines - 1879 Providenve Bats(R) Balance (E) CF-1e25(-1) .357/.369/.482
Herman Long - 1894 Cleveland Spiders Bats(L) Balance(2R) SS-2e88 LF-5e25 2B-2e71 .324/.371/.505
Deacon White - 1877 Boston Bats(L) Balance(1R) 1B-3e30 RF-3e21(-2) C-2e16(+2) .387/.405/.545
Jack Glasscock - 1889 Indianapolis Bats(R) Balance(E) SS-1e80 2B-3e71 .352/.385/.467
Tommy Tucker - 1889 Baltimore(AA) Bats(S) Balance(E) 1B-3e30 CF-3e25(-1) .372/.418/.484
Jack Doyle - 1894 NY Giants Bats(R) Balance(E) 1B-3e30 C-3e16(0) .367/.416/.498
Steve Brodie - 1894 Baltimore Bats(L) Balance(2R) CF-2e23 LF-3e23(+2) .366/.386/.464
Cupid Childs -1894 Cleveland Bats(L) Balance(3R) 2B-2e71 .353/.471/.459

Re Jack Glasscock, he is the only one of the top 200 position players by career WAR without a card!

Likely will be a 1e40 at SS for 1889 season. Had a 17 year career in NL.

If I wasn't committed to nominating only Rays cards for now, this would be my next nominee.

Some terrible defense represented in those guys.

An important addition IMHO. He won't set the world afire but he belongs in ATG with at least one card.

Let's start off with this:

Hall of Fame Statistics
Black Ink
Batting - 56 (23), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink
Batting - 210 (36), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor
Batting - 86 (224), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Batting - 34 (247), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Left Field (37th):
45.2 career WAR / 31.1 7yr-peak WAR / 38.1 JAWS
Average HOF LF (out of 20):
65.5 career WAR / 41.6 7yr-peak WAR / 53.6 JAWS

I refer to Harry Stovey, considered the 5th best pre-1900 slugger (google it). Had a 14 year career mostly with the Philadelphia Athletics, his two best years were 1889 and 1891 (with Boston Beaneaters nl) playing 1B and OF. Don't care which one gets a card prefer the 1889 card a bit. Lifetime OPS + of 144. Probably deserves to be in the HOF.

1889 32 PHA AA 137 634 556 152 171 38 13 19 119 63 (SB) 77 .308 .393 .525 .918 163

1891 BSN NL 134 625 544 118 152 31 20 16 95 57 (SB) 79 .279 .373 .498 .871 144

Those errors Frank listed are presumably pre-normalization by SOM?

Those errors Frank listed are presumably pre-normalization by SOM?

Correct. Dahlen would have been a 1 e88 without the normalization, for example.

Based on the players added that are considered Deadball it looks like SOM cuts the errors in half. Of the players I've posted their fielding stats are based off the seasons I have.

Vic Saier 1913

Fred Tenney - 1899 Boston Bats(L) Balance(1R) 1B-1e30 .347/.411/.439
Paul Hines - 1879 Providenve Bats(R) Balance (E) CF-1e25(-1) .357/.369/.482
Herman Long - 1894 Cleveland Spiders Bats(L) Balance(2R) SS-2e88 LF-5e25 2B-2e71 .324/.371/.505
Deacon White - 1877 Boston Bats(L) Balance(1R) 1B-3e30 RF-3e21(-2) C-2e16(+2) .387/.405/.545
Jack Glasscock - 1889 Indianapolis Bats(R) Balance(E) SS-1e80 2B-3e71 .352/.385/.467
Tommy Tucker - 1889 Baltimore(AA) Bats(S) Balance(E) 1B-3e30 CF-3e25(-1) .372/.418/.484
Jack Doyle - 1894 NY Giants Bats(R) Balance(E) 1B-3e30 C-3e16(0) .367/.416/.498
Steve Brodie - 1894 Baltimore Bats(L) Balance(2R) CF-2e23 LF-3e23(+2) .366/.386/.464
Cupid Childs -1894 Cleveland Bats(L) Balance(3R) 2B-2e71 .353/.471/.459

1899 Fred Tenney, BSB, Bats-L, 1R Balance, 1b-1e30
LH--3.9 2b, 0.6 3b, 0.2 HR, 13 BB 373/455/432, .887 OPS
RH--1.3 2b, 4.3 3b, 0.2 HR, 12 BB 406/478/514, .991 OPS
It's a good card for a guy who played 1b for the db Braves for 15 seasons. Good add.


1879 Paul Hines, PRO, Bats-R, E Balance, CF-1(-1)e25
LH--6.2 2b, 3.6 3b, 1.2 HR, 1 BB 436/442/595, 1.037 OPS
RH--6.8 2b, 4.3 3b, 0.9 HR, 0 BB 440/440/607, 1.047 OPS
A reminder that I DESPISE these pre-1894 cards. Hines played in the day when the hitter could request a high pitch of a low pitch and the obliging "pitcher" would underhand the pitch to that spot. I don't think those guys should have a place in this game.


1894 Herman Long, BSB, Bats-L, 2R Balance, SS-2e88, LF-5(0)e25, 2b-2e71
LH--3.8 2b, 4 3b, 1.9 HR, 5 BB 244/293/417, .710 OPS
RH--7.8 2b, 3 3b, 5 HR, 5 BB 307/352/592, .944 OPS
Longtime SS for the db Braves. I don't know that even if Strat cuts his defensive rating to SS-2e44, that he'd get used much. Don't mind him, but I don't think it's a great addition.


1877 Deacon White, BSB, Bats-L, 1R Balance, 1b-3e30, RF-3(-2)e21, C-2(+2)e16
LH--5.9 2b, 7.6 3b, 1.1 HR, 3 BB 457/472/688, 1.160 OPS
RH--6.5 2b, 7.6 3b, 1.3 HR, 3 BB 489/503/730, 1.233 OPS
Another pre-1894 hitter. He's a Hall of Famer, but I'm not interested. I'm sure he'll be voted in anyway......


1889 Jack Glasscock, IND, Bats-R, E Balance, SS-1e80, 2b-3e71
LH--9.6 2b, 0.3 3b, 1.4 HR, 1 BB 437/453/573, 1.026 OPS
RH--9.6 2b, 0.3 3b, 1.4 HR, 1 BB 436/452/572, 1.024 OPS
He'd be an acceptable SS if Strat cut his error rating to 40. He produces on defense. Amazingly, in 1894 his hitting curtailed sharply.


1889 Tommy Tucker, BLN, Bats-S, E Balance, 1b-3e30, CF-3(-1)e25
LH--3.9 2b, 2.8 3b, 1.1 HR, 5 BB 480/562/619, 1.181 OPS
RH--4.9 2b, 1.2 3b, 1.5 HR, 5 BB 482/564/612, 1.176 OPS
He actually continued to hit pretty well after 1894, though his .372 average in 1889 is 82 points higher than his career Batting Average. Could think of a lot better adds.


1894 Jack Doyle, NYG, Bats-R, E Balance, 1b-3e30, C-3(0)e16
LH--9 2b, 2.1 3b, 0.5 HR, 6 BB 425/462/570, 1.032 OPS
RH--9 2b, 2.1 3b, 0.5 HR, 6 BB 425/462/570, 1.032 OPS
Good career, mainly with the Giants. This season is a bit of an outlier for his career, but not terribly so.

1894 Steve Brodie, BLN, Bats-L 2R Balance, CF-2(+2)e23, LF-3(+2)e23
LH--2.9 2b, 2.4 3b, 0.2 HR, 0 BB 328/359/406, .765 OPS
RH--4.4 2b, 2.4 3b, 0.2 HR, 0 BB 414/441/507, .948 OPS
A .300 lifetime hitter. A hard sell anywhere but DH, but not terrible.

1894 Cupid Childs, CLN, Bats-L, 3R Balance, 2b-2e71
LH--1.6 2b, 2.8 3b, 0 HR, 29 BB 271/481/365, .845 OPS
RH--3 2b, 2.8 3b, 0 HR, 29 BB 460/615/572, 1.187 OPS
Good 2b for those 1890s Cleveland Spiders teams. His OBP is outstanding. If Strat cut his errors, he's be around a 2b-2e35. Would he get used? I'm thinking he would.