24 Let's Play Two League - Chat

Good points Apollo.

"In addition, and less importantly, I wonder about the following hypothetical: if I had traded my 8th-round pick to jbenson during last season or earlier in the offseason, either for a player or for other picks, that trade would have gone through at the time. Presumably, jbenson would now be able to make that 8th-round pick that was previously traded to him - even though I no longer would have owned that pick as of now. In fact, I believe I have made a number of trades that turned out exactly like that in past years. Were those trades legal? I don't think there is any easy way of dealing with this situation, or that most of these trades are significant enough to care either way, but it is an interesting question."

I would argue that this trade would have held up even if you made it earlier in this same draft. By earlier I mean before your 30 man roster were filled.

Just to clear things up Apollo and I discussed his extra picks when we made an earlier trade....he was unsure if he needed them in case he made other deals, but he said if he didn't I could have them....we should have made you all aware of that before but I'm fine not acquiring the pick at this time....Sorry for the confusion was not trying to circumvent a rule.

Right, agreed, TVF - and that highlights the issue even more clearly. But I'm not sure what could be done about it while allowing picks to be traded as they currently are, and am not sure any change would be worth it, so I have no real rule change to propose on that front.

As for the prospect promotion issue, I would propose the following clarification (the bolded language being added to the current rule as written):

"Prospect Player rules:
5) Prospects can be promoted to the major league roster at any time following the Spring Free Agent and Prospect Drafts, provided there is roster space available. Once promoted all prospects lose their prospect status, and cannot be demoted back to prospect status."

This would bring the above rule into conformity with the below rule (bolded language already appears in the current rule):

"Player movement:
3) Prospects can be activated and promoted to the major league roster during the regular season provided there is roster space available to do so."

TVF trades C Jorge Alfaro, OF Oscar Mercado and 2021 3rd round FA pick

to the ghost of roger maris for C Wilson Ramos, OF Tommy Pham and 2021 5th round FA pick

Ghost to confirm.

confirmed

Right, agreed, TVF - and that highlights the issue even more clearly. But I'm not sure what could be done about it while allowing picks to be traded as they currently are, and am not sure any change would be worth it, so I have no real rule change to propose on that front.

As for the prospect promotion issue, I would propose the following clarification (the bolded language being added to the current rule as written):

"Prospect Player rules:
5) Prospects can be promoted to the major league roster at any time following the Spring Free Agent and Prospect Drafts, provided there is roster space available. Once promoted all prospects lose their prospect status, and cannot be demoted back to prospect status."

This would bring the above rule into conformity with the below rule (bolded language already appears in the current rule):

"Player movement:
3) Prospects can be activated and promoted to the major league roster during the regular season provided there is roster space available to do so."

So under this proposal, for example, if you wanted to promote two prospects, would you propose that you forfeit picks 9 and 10 in the FA draft and then promote prospects after the FA draft?

No, that’s how the rule was originally before we changed it. I would propose that the roster must be filled through the FA Draft, without the promotion of prospects. Then, if a midseason trade reduces that roster below 30, a prospect can be promoted to fill that extra space.

(To be clear, I think the rules as written already should be interpreted this way - I just want to clarify them further.)

No, that’s how the rule was originally before we changed it. I would propose that the roster must be filled through the FA Draft, without the promotion of prospects. Then, if a midseason trade reduces that roster below 30, a prospect can be promoted to fill that extra space.

(To be clear, I think the rules as written already should be interpreted this way - I just want to clarify them further.)

Maybe I am just confused, but would this mean that you could not promote a prospect unless you made a trade?

Yes, isn't that the current rule anyway? Maybe I am confused as well, but I'm not sure what scenario other than an unbalanced trade would allow a prospect to be promoted under the current rules (aside from being promoted as one of a team's 20 keepers).

EDIT: My understanding is that we can carry over a total of 20 active players each year, including both keepers and promoted prospects. Any prospects can of course be promoted at that time. But after that, what else but an unbalanced trade would allow a prospect to be promoted?

My understanding is that the spirit of the rule is to force owners to promote players before the FA draft if they intend to use them in the game Season 1. It prevents using prospect status to load up your roster using an advantage someone without promotable prospects might not have. The only way I am aware of to 'circumvent' the prospect promotion rules is to make an unbalanced trade after the FA draft begins.

My philosophy is that all of your FA picks should be assets to do with what you wish until the FA draft begins. In Original 24 TKL, this is managed in some way by this process: Just prior to FA draft, any FA draft picks owned by a team, whether they are their own or picks that have been traded for, that would cause a roster to exceed 30 players are forfeited immediately at the start of the FA draft. At that point, those picks are no longer assets. If you make an unbalanced trade during the draft and need an extra pick to finish your draft at 30 players, you don't get to reclaim a forfeited pick. You are given a supplemental pick at the end of the draft. If you make an unbalanced trade that makes one of your late round picks unnecessary, that unnecessary pick is forfeited at the time of the trade.

In that setting, Apollo's 8th round pick would have ceased to be an asset at the time Apollo made an unbalanced trade that caused the 8th round pick to no longer be necessary.

My understanding is that the spirit of the rule is to force owners to promote players before the FA draft if they intend to use them in the game Season 1. It prevents using prospect status to load up your roster using an advantage someone without promotable prospects might not have. The only way I am aware of to 'circumvent' the prospect promotion rules is to make an unbalanced trade after the FA draft begins.

My philosophy is that all of your FA picks should be assets to do with what you wish until the FA draft begins. In Original 24 TKL, this is managed in some way by this process: Just prior to FA draft, any FA draft picks owned by a team, whether they are their own or picks that have been traded for, that would cause a roster to exceed 30 players are forfeited immediately at the start of the FA draft. At that point, those picks are no longer assets. If you make an unbalanced trade during the draft and need an extra pick to finish your draft at 30 players, you don't get to reclaim a forfeited pick. You are given a supplemental pick at the end of the draft. If you make an unbalanced trade that makes one of your late round picks unnecessary, that unnecessary pick is forfeited at the time of the trade.

In that setting, Apollo's 8th round pick would have ceased to be an asset at the time Apollo made an unbalanced trade that caused the 8th round pick to no longer be necessary.

As one the writers of the original rules for this league and at one time the TKL league as well, the original intent is how Cal has spelled it out here.

My understanding is that the spirit of the rule is to force owners to promote players before the FA draft if they intend to use them in the game Season 1. It prevents using prospect status to load up your roster using an advantage someone without promotable prospects might not have. The only way I am aware of to 'circumvent' the prospect promotion rules is to make an unbalanced trade after the FA draft begins.

My philosophy is that all of your FA picks should be assets to do with what you wish until the FA draft begins. In Original 24 TKL, this is managed in some way by this process: Just prior to FA draft, any FA draft picks owned by a team, whether they are their own or picks that have been traded for, that would cause a roster to exceed 30 players are forfeited immediately at the start of the FA draft. At that point, those picks are no longer assets. If you make an unbalanced trade during the draft and need an extra pick to finish your draft at 30 players, you don't get to reclaim a forfeited pick. You are given a supplemental pick at the end of the draft. If you make an unbalanced trade that makes one of your late round picks unnecessary, that unnecessary pick is forfeited at the time of the trade.

In that setting, Apollo's 8th round pick would have ceased to be an asset at the time Apollo made an unbalanced trade that caused the 8th round pick to no longer be necessary.

As one the writers of the original rules for this league and at one time the TKL league as well, the original intent is how Cal has spelled it out here.

What he said