Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

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sociophil

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 9:27 pm

I have Gio Urshela a 3yr guy going to arbitration. If he comes in low and I only have to pay the league minimum, will it be the minimum for a 3yr player or a 4 yr player?


Sorry. I misunderstood the question.

You guys are confusing the Free Agent minimums in Article X with the Contract and Arbitration Minimums in Article IX. The Article IX Sect, 5 minimums apply to arbitration rulings. You can resign Urshela at $5.33 mil or take him to arbitration. If you take him to arbitration and win he would cost $2 mil. If you lose he costs the 2020 strat card price (assuming it's higher than $2 mil). The lowest price you will pay for Urshela is $2 mil.

The same applies to Bader. You can renew him for one year at his current price of $3.19 mil or take him to arb. As an arb 1 guy (4th year of service in 2020) you would pay $2 mil if you win or his SOM 2020 card price (assuming it is higher than $2 mil). Arb 2 guys will cost a minimum of $3 mil and arb 3 guys $4 mil.

And thanks for reminding me of how the arbitration rule works! I'm going to go back and sign some of my arb 1 guys at their current salaries rather than extend their contracts. Why pay more for Berrios when I can get him for a million less next year?

I have revised my guidance posted on 7 above to reflect the rule in Article 9 Section 6.
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oldmansmith2

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostThu Apr 16, 2020 10:51 pm

sociophil wrote:
I have Gio Urshela a 3yr guy going to arbitration. If he comes in low and I only have to pay the league minimum, will it be the minimum for a 3yr player or a 4 yr player?


Sorry. I misunderstood the question.

You guys are confusing the Free Agent minimums in Article X with the Contract and Arbitration Minimums in Article IX. The Article IX Sect, 5 minimums apply to arbitration rulings. You can resign Urshela at $5.33 mil or take him to arbitration. If you take him to arbitration and win he would cost $2 mil. If you lose he costs the 2020 strat card price (assuming it's higher than $2 mil). The lowest price you will pay for Urshela is $2 mil.

The same applies to Bader. You can renew him for one year at his current price of $3.19 mil or take him to arb. As an arb 1 guy (4th year of service in 2020) you would pay $2 mil if you win or his SOM 2020 card price (assuming it is higher than $2 mil). Arb 2 guys will cost a minimum of $3 mil and arb 3 guys $4 mil.

And thanks for reminding me of how the arbitration rule works! I'm going to go back and sign some of my arb 1 guys at their current salaries rather than extend their contracts. Why pay more for Berrios when I can get him for a million less next year?

I have revised my guidance posted on 7 above to reflect the rule in Article 9 Section 6.


Phil it looks like Berrios is one of the guys whose years of service was listed in error. You have him on your page at 3 years of service. Cot's contracts has him listed at 3.044 years which would round up to 4 years would it not?
Also you say in this post "I'm going to go back and sign some of my arb 1 guys at their current salaries rather than extend their contracts. Why pay more for Berrios when I can get him for a million less next year?" Are you saying that you plan to sign Berrios at his current salary???
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sociophil

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:06 am

The Ellicott City Torrent have reached contract extensions with the following players:

I am revising my contract extensions based on Article IX Section 6 which allows you to renew any arb eligible player at their current salary or the Major League Minimum Salary, whichever is higher. I am also providing a commentary to explain why I am making these decisions based on the rules. Hopefully this will clarify the application of the contract rules.

6+ Years of Service Players
Betts, Mookie -- 6 years x $10,120,000
Rizzo, Anthony -- 4 years x $8,520,000
Springer, George -- 3 years x $8,190,000
Abreu, Jose -- 3 years x $4,800,000
Stanton, Giancarlo -- 4 years x $3,000,000
Paxton, James -- 3 years x 3,300,000
Chapman, Aroldis -- 3 years x 4,080,000
May, Trevor -- 3 years x $3,050,000

Commentary: The 6+ years of service guys are pretty straight forward. It’s a simple calculation of what kind of card they are likely to produce over the period of the contract relative to the salary you are paying. For example, Betts is priced as a top 10% player at his position, so by resigning him I am gambling that he will remain an elite SOM player for the next six years. Rizzo and Springer are both priced close to top 25% players at their positions (really more like top 20%), so I am betting that they will continue to produce, on average, $8 cards over the periods of their contracts. Stanton is a little different. He has a $2.17 mil salary in 2019 but I am offering him a 4 year extension at the required minimum FA bid of $3 mil a year for 4 years. I am essentially locking him up for four years at the average price of a left fielder with the expectation that he will be much better than average in at least one of those four years. Looking at the pitchers, I am getting May for three years at close to the average price for a reliever, Chapman for the average price of a top 50% reliever, and Paxton for the average price of a starter. I think each of these players will end up producing cards that are better than I am paying for them over the next three years.


5 years of Service Players
Neris, Hector – 1 year x $4,100,000
Correa, Carlos – 1 year x $4,760,000

Commentary: Thanks for the discussions in the contract thread, I was reminded to the rule in Article IX Section 6 which allows you to re-sign an arb eligible player for their current salary or the major league minimum salary if it is higher. This means that you do not need to take an arb 3 player to arbitration or offer him a multi-year contract extension if you don’t want to. Instead you can simply renew. For Hector Neris, this is a no brainer. The league minimum salary is $4 mil and his current salary is $4.1 mil, so why take him to arbitration when the most I have to gain is $100,000 in savings if he produces a shitty card next year? Instead I protect myself from the upside risk by re-signing him. Now Correa is a tougher nut to crack. Here is a guy that is only 25 years old and has produced a WAR of 24.4 in his brief career. I could offer a contract extension of 5 years or more, but it would cost me $7.38 mil a year based on the 25% rule. I have decided instead to extend him for 1 year at $4.76 mil and lose him to free agency at the end of the 2020 card season. All my chips are on Ahmed Rosario.

3-4 Years of Service Players
Giolito, Lucas – 4 years x $5,110,000
Berrios, Jose -- 4 years x $5,110,000
Maeda, Kenta – 4 years x $5,110,000
Sanchez, Gary -- 4 years x $4,010,000
Gallo, Joey -- 4 years x $5,380,000
Lamet, Dinelson – 1 year x $2,840,000
Alvarado, Jose – 1 year x $2,000,000
Rosario, Amed – 1 year x $2,270,000

Commentary: Maeda, Berrios, Sanchez and Gallo all have 4 years of service and are entering their arb 2 season. I could renew their contracts for 2020 at their current salaries, but then I would have to offer them contract extensions in their arb 3 years, which would cost me more money. So I have decided to offer 4 year contract extensions to all of them at the average salary of the top 50% of players in their primary positions. For Maeda and Berrios this is $5.11 mil a year, while for Gallo and Sanchez it is $5.38 mil and $4.01 mil a year respectively. I believe that these four will prove to be better than average, and probably much better than average, players over the next four years. Unfortunately it means I lose control of them in 2024. Giolito is a different story, and his contract extension is the result of the decision we made to let all year 3 & 4 players to be signed to contract extensions at the top 50% avg salary regardless of their SOM salary. That decision allows me to sign Giolito to a contract extension at $5.11 mil rather than the $6.77 mil he is being paid in 2019. Finally, Lamet, Rosario, and Alvarado can be renewed at their current salaries, or in the case of Alvarado at the much higher league minimum salary, so why not?

1-2 Years of Service Players are renewed
Fletcher, David -- $5,020,000
Rodgers, Brendan -- $600,000
Diaz, Isan -- $600,000
Riley, Austin -- $920,000
Kiner-Falefa, Isiah -- $750,000
Brinson, Lewis -- $700,000
Davis, J.D. -- $3,480,000
Buehler, Walker -- $6,260,000
Duplantier, Jon -- $860,000
Cease, Dylan -- $600,000
Webb, Logan -- $600,000
Sheffield, Justus -- $600,000
Baez, Michel -- $2,000,000

Commentary: The 1-2 year players are easy—renew at their current salaries of the major league minimum (whichever is higher) or cut. I decided to renew this batch because they are young and cheap. In the case of Buehler I renewed not because he’s cheap but because he’s awesome! Fletcher is a brain fart. I’m hoping he becomes an indispensable jack of all trades. I would have taken him to arbitration if I could.

Free Agents
Donaldson, Josh
Solano, Donovan
Vogt, Stephen
Gardner, Brett
Sanchez, Aaron
Ross, Joe
Bass, Anthony
Hudson, Daniel
Smith, Kevan

Commentary: These guys were cut to make room for free agency. So everyone is re-signed or cut. There will be no arbitration cases for the torrent in 2020.

2020 Salary Cap Space used = $111,740,000
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teamnasty

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:21 am

Section 9.06    Any player with an expiring contract that has less than 6 years of service time, but makes more than the salary scale above can be renewed for another year at the same salary. Players with more than 6 years of service time and an expiring contract are eligible for free agency.

So Phil you interpret the rule above to mean that players who make less than the minimum salary scale can be renewed via arbitration at the minimum salary, a la Alavardo at $2M? I'm not challenging you, just seeking clarification.
Last edited by teamnasty on Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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teamnasty

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:36 am

Here are my revised contracts in light of the Rule IX.6 discussion above.

6+ years of service extensions

1. Justin Upton 2yrs x $1.00
2. Yu Darvish 2yrs x $4.44
3. Trevor Bauer 4yrs x $3.00
4. Robbie Ray 3yrs x $2.00
5. Masahiro Tanaka 3yrs x $2.00
6. Cory Kluber 3yrs x $2.00
7. Kevin Gausman 2yrs x $1.00
8. Alex Wood 2yrs x $1.00

5th year players

9. Michael Conforto Arb 3
10. Mark Canha Arb3

3-4 years of service

11 Tom Murphy Arb 1
12 Edwin Diaz Arb 2 fixed at $3M per Rule 9.06
13 Rhys Hoskins Arb 1
14 Yuli Gurriel Arb 2
15 Jesse Winker Arb 1 fixed at $2M per Rule 9.06
16 Seth Lugo Arb 2
17 Chad Green Arb 2 fixed at $3M per Rule 9.06
18 Amir Garrett Arb 1 fixed at $2M per Rule 9.06
19. Matt Chapman 4yr buyout x $6.68
20. Blake Snell 4yr buyout x $5.11


1-2 years of service renewed for 2020

21. Gleyber Torres $4.72
22. Gavin Lux $0.60
23. Fernando Tatis Jr. $5.66
24. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. $0.95
25. Jeff McNeill $6.81
26. Trent Grisham $1.98
27. Ramon Laureano $3.56
28. Luis Rengifo $1.00
29. Giovanny Gallegos $5.13

Not extended:

30. Jason Castro
31. Carlos Santana
32. Addison Russell
33. Mallex Smith
34. Ryan Yarbrough
35. Mike Minor
36. Jon Gray
37. Tyler Skaggs
38. Pedro Baez
39. Tyler Clippard
40. Keone Kela
Last edited by teamnasty on Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Paul_Long71

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:41 am

Wait, this is a total change in how 5 year guys were stated to be done. I thought they had to be extended only at top25% or go to Arbitration. That's why they were poison. we talked about 5 year guys so much. now there's this new option of giving them a 1-year extension....why didn't that ever come up before?
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Paul_Long71

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:45 am

also Phil....your last line is

2020 Salary Cap Space used = $111,740,000

does that include the $3 million for your 6 prospects (3 this year, plus the 3 for next year that you will need to pay for as well)
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teamnasty

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:47 am

Rule 9.06 has been in there the whole time, but I certainly overlooked it. Did Phil ever say that you couldn't renew 5 year guys at their card salary for 3rd arb year?
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Paul_Long71

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:50 am

nope but as much as I talked about 5 year guys....and you know i did....it never was mentioned. still seems weird, it makes for an interesting choice for the high dollar 5 year guys but an obvious choice for the guys below about 5 mil.

for Baez it's Arb3 and get him for either $4 million or his SOM card for next year or do this 1 year thing and resign him for 7.29. interesting decision.

for Correa its Arb3 and get him for either $4 million or his SOM card for next year or resign him for 4.76. That seems like an obvious choice.
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teamnasty

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Re: Moneyball Baseball Contract Thread

PostFri Apr 17, 2020 12:54 am

Well yes but the same dynamic is in play for year 3-4 players. If their salary is low, rule 9.6 allows you to renew them at the arbitration salary minimum ($2 for arb 1, $3 for arb 2) rather than risk that they will have a huge year with a salary bump. If their salary is high, you "take them to arb" on the gamble that their 2020 card salary will come under 2019. What makes 5th year guys toxic is you have to renew them at the higher of their carded salary or the top 25% rate, and do so for 5 years. Whereas for 3-4 year guys you get the fixed lower salary at the 50% rate, which comes under some star players' 2019 salaries and represents a discount, and your contract is shortened to 4.
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