WHY limit the pre 1900 players to 2nd tier?

So I can't call The Last Tool a boomer but he can try to publicly shame me on the boards for going to prison and working at a resteraunt???? I don't think so!

Except I have never worked in a restaurant, and what would be wrong with it if I had? That's some class warfare b.s.

Stop crying like little girls,you are 65 year old men who have had the world revolve around you your entire lives.

Just like all the arguments, the question to kick off this thread is disingenuous. The cards weren't eliminated.
If you don't want to be called Boomers stop acting like old men who think everything revolves around you and white male culture.

The bottom line is it wasn't MLB baseball until 1901. Sorry bout your luck boomer!

lets talk about actual disingenuous behavior. A person who would falsely use racism in order to advance their arguments would be the definition of disingenuous.
Not only is that person hurting the cause against actual racism which as noted is serious and does occur all too often - but clearly said person has no issues repeating it ad nauseum.

All I was trying to say yesterday was, if we as a majority of the community, want to persuade SOM to change their position on this, we should:

1) Send them an email, or better yet, handwritten snail mail letter, expressing your displeasure with this decision and asking them to reconsider making what is currently called ATG9 all eras the default player set, and the post 1900 era a subset of that for those who don't want to use players from the 1800s.

2) State that you intend to avoid playing the ATG9 set and will only participate in ATG9 all eras leagues, and request that they look at the data after a month or so, to see for themselves which of the two is more popular with the ones who are signing up for new teams.

3) Follow through with your stated intention by avoiding the default leagues, and send them another letter in about a month asking them if they are willing to make the switch based on actual numbers.

I think if we are cordial and professional in our approach to SOM management, we will see a change in default eventually, we just need to be patient and persistent if we really care about this issue.

Just like all the arguments, the question to kick off this thread is disingenuous. The cards weren't eliminated.
If you don't want to be called Boomers stop acting like old men who think everything revolves around you and white male culture.

The bottom line is it wasn't MLB baseball until 1901. Sorry bout your luck boomer!

lets talk about actual disingenuous behavior. A person who would falsely use racism in order to advance their arguments would be the definition of disingenuous.
Not only is that person hurting the cause against actual racism which as noted is serious and does occur all too often - but clearly said person has no issues repeating it ad nauseum.

Radagast reminds me of another person in a different forum I used to frequent, who constantly talked about SJWs (social justice warriors). If you disagreed with him, well, you were just an SJW, even if you weren’t. You couldn’t have a straightforward conversation with him about anything, because his agenda and prejudice filtered everything. I had to leave the forum because I didn’t want to deal with his toxicity. Radagast is the same way. If you disagree, well, you’re just a privileged white guy. My suggestion is for people to file complaints about the tone. I would, but I just don’t know exactly how to report someone who has chronic butthurt.

All I was trying to say yesterday was, if we as a majority of the community, want to persuade SOM to change their position on this, we should:

1) Send them an email, or better yet, handwritten snail mail letter, expressing your displeasure with this decision and asking them to reconsider making what is currently called ATG9 all eras the default player set, and the post 1900 era a subset of that for those who don't want to use players from the 1800s.

2) State that you intend to avoid playing the ATG9 set and will only participate in ATG9 all eras leagues, and request that they look at the data after a month or so, to see for themselves which of the two is more popular with the ones who are signing up for new teams.

3) Follow through with your stated intention by avoiding the default leagues, and send them another letter in about a month asking them if they are willing to make the switch based on actual numbers.

I think if we are cordial and professional in our approach to SOM management, we will see a change in default eventually, we just need to be patient and persistent if we really care about this issue.

Sadly. Supertyphoon, you really are not the majority, you are in fact the vocal minority. Most of the new players either do not know of these boards or do not say anything. You are the players who have the most experience in the game and honestly you all sound the exact same. All of you have even said that most of the people do not vote, meaning they do not care or don't know how to vote..

All of your arguments have merit. Mr. Brown's arguments have merit as well, I just wish he racist stuff wasn't there, let alone as blatant as it is.

Here is my point of view on the matter (being just a rookie at this I probably will get no respect about my opinion) but the players pre 1900 are very skewed and do not reflect the outcomes of "modern Baseball". Hell, one guy pitched over 500 innings, not that he was good...he was 12 and 48...in ONE season!!!! really, come on... I really would rather play without them...just my opinion, no agendas no anything....but I can tell you I do love this game already....

One other point...the name calling and he started it behavior is very immature...as a teacher and a coach I have tried extremely hard to educate my student's that responding to name calling, with name calling is really allowing someone else to control you...they were looking for that response and you played right into their hands...I am sure most of us are old enough to be considered "MATURE", maybe we should all act like we are.

soooooo--
still the debate rages about the eras-
and while each person has some rationale for why they are right,
There is STILL no rational argument against including players who were
actually voted on and in, in the default set.

Again,
lets look at why this happened.
SoM sent out a survey of what people wanted.
Some folks complained (just like here- again its their right) that they didn't like the older players.
SoM did not poll the community- they reacted to people complaining.
No different than why we simultaneously got repricing the RPs AND reduced usage AND reduced roles- instead of seeing if just
one of those measures would be sufficient.

This is a case where the community is voting with their pocketbooks. Normally the release of a new ATG iteration causes a significant increase in available leagues Not this time. Sure leagues are being formed but many are being abandoned by their creators because no one is joining.

The Barnstormers tour had something like 230 people sign up. I believe 80 or more are not in leagues as of yesterday and the second wave of teams starts Monday. This is nothing short of a debacle.

SOM cannot field a perfect product. I commend them for trying to improve the game and the experience of playing it,but they appear to have shot themselves in the foot this time. When ATG 8 came out and they tried to shove the Japanese league players down our throats, we vociferously protested and they did listen. As always, everyone here has an opinion, but this time no clear consensus has emerged although highly experienced and active managers, the ones who make the game profitable certainly appear to favor inclusion of the pre-1900 cards as the default. SOM is ALWAYS focused on the bottom line. I believe Mighty Moose and I have weighed in on this in compelling fashion to little avail. Now SOM can reap the cost of their arbitrary exclusion of the old timers from the default ATG set. Since their regular revenue stream is likely to dry up without professional sports this year, this could prove a very costly miscalculation on their part. I will be cutting back and now plan to run a maximum of 10 teams at a time, down from a high of 50 ten years ago and from about 20 for the past couple of years. I do this specifically to voice, with my purse, my extreme displeasure with how SOM has handled the default set issue.

on the other hand autodraft leagues continue to fill

I usually agree with Last Druid, but I think his data is flawed this time. From the Barnstormers page, it appears there are 20 leagues (= 240 players, some are fillers) and over 220 participants, all in full leagues.

You are right. I took a cursory look at the standings page yesterday and saw they were up to only #145. So I checked again just now and found that 80 players or so were also numbered #145! Oops.