ATG9 default vote - POLL PLEASE VOTE !

BTW--
lets talk about Cy Young, Lefty Grove if you want to throw around which names belong in the conversation with Maddux, Train, Pete Alexander etc.
their card aren't nearly as good --
see arguing this sort of thing works the other way too, but is a pretty large rouge color tinted herring in regards to eras.

I’ll try to state it again: Sweeney played with different rules than Maddux, Cy Young, and Robin Roberts.


True, the community voted them in. They also have voted in huge outliers before (Padgett), as well as redundant cards. That may be an argument for or against democracy, but it still doesn’t legitimize their stats.

The community also rightfully howled when Strat tried to add Japanese and Cuban players to the main set, but at least they were playing by the same baseball rules. I’m sorry, but when a pitcher is pitching underhand to a spot called by the hitter, and gets 8 balls before a walk, I’m not sure what to call it, but it ain’t Modern baseball by a long stretch.


If you’re arguing that the community voted them in, I see your point. If I’m arguing the stats from slow pitch softball and modern baseball don’t mix, that’s not wrong.

BTW--
lets talk about Cy Young, Lefty Grove if you want to throw around which names belong in the conversation with Maddux, Train, Pete Alexander etc.
their card aren't nearly as good --
see arguing this sort of thing works the other way too, but is a pretty large rouge color tinted herring in regards to eras.

They belong in the same conversation because they played with the same RULES. I think that is fairly obvious. It’s not a debate of who’s the best. If Newhouser has a season to rival Maddux, cool. A discussion of Different outcomes do not equal a discussion of different rules.

BTW--
lets talk about Cy Young, Lefty Grove if you want to throw around which names belong in the conversation with Maddux, Train, Pete Alexander etc.
their card aren't nearly as good --
see arguing this sort of thing works the other way too, but is a pretty large rouge color tinted herring in regards to eras.

They belong in the same conversation because they played with the same RULES. I think that is fairly obvious.

No you are missing the point---
they BELONG in the convo but their cards aren't in the convo.
they are simply not reflective of the same quality as the others
while perhaps the opposite is true of Sweeney-
you can't have it both ways though, where you argue its not the cards its the era AND its the not the era its the cards.

I personally believe that most people still did not vote if only because they do not know or care about voting for that matter.

Personally do not like them included because their stats are skewed bc of the rules under which they played and therefore they play better in SOM than they would in real life.

Although I hate the fact that Joel Pinero and Andy Sonanstine could routinely beat pitchers like Seaver and Carlton, when they were nowhere near the calibur of player they those two studs were.

Just my two cents

The whole point of the conversation about Sweeney is he played with different RULES. Those other guys you mention played with similar modern baseball rules. That’s why they can be compared.

I think it is a perfectly logical and legitimate argument. You can decide whether you like the argument, but you can’t tell me two different games are the same.

BTW--
lets talk about Cy Young, Lefty Grove if you want to throw around which names belong in the conversation with Maddux, Train, Pete Alexander etc.
their card aren't nearly as good --
see arguing this sort of thing works the other way too, but is a pretty large rouge color tinted herring in regards to eras.

They belong in the same conversation because they played with the same RULES. I think that is fairly obvious.

No you are missing the point---
they BELONG in the convo but their cards aren't in the convo.
they are simply not reflective of the same quality as the others
while perhaps the opposite is true of Sweeney-
you can't have it both ways though, where you argue its not the cards its the era AND its the era not the cards.

That doesn’t make sense. It’s not the card. It’s the RULES. I’m not having it both ways. Rules changed in 1894

The whole point of the conversation about Sweeney is he played with different RULES. Those other guys you mention played with similar modern baseball rules. That’s why they can be compared.

I think it is a perfectly logical and legitimate argument. You can decide whether you like the argument, but you can’t tell me two different games are the same.

Andy you are making 2 different opposing arguments without recognizing it.

EITHER a guys card reflects how great they are and the convo is about the era they played in--
which means that somehow Cy Young and Lefty Grove apparently are being cheated beyond reason
OR a card does not reflect how great a player is and therefore Sweeneys card being great is fine.

You have to choose one of those 2 it can't be both.

Their cards are based on the stats they produced in single season playing with the same rules. Sweeney’s card is based on a season with different rules.

In order to stop beating this thread to death:

You say that because the community voted a card in, it is automatically validated.
I say that comparing stats from two different games (very different rules) is not a legitimate statistical comparison.

I’m fine with community doing whatever it wants. I’m sure you are as well.