The extended effect of F0

Played against an opponent last night that I think illustrated the extended perils of allowing pitchers to remain at F0--we just don't know how the black box converts...and this was a small ball team, which probably makes it worse because of the generally higher OBP cards. Why HAL is sac bunting with a 15 run lead is another story but maybe that was a higher percentage play card-wise as it was Rich Hill.

So yeah, the dice splits will look ugly, but that isn't from bad luck. Problem is not knowing how much of it was not bad luck.

TOP OF INNING 6
SUBSTITUTION at P: B.J. Ryan (L)
0 H.Wagner 3-5 Walk b-1 F0
0 1 T.Cobb 1-12 Walk 1-2 b-1 F0
0 12 R.Carew 3-5 Walk 2-3 1-2 b-1 F0
0 123J.Lucroy 1-8 Single (RF) 3-H 2-H 1-3 b-1 F0
0 1 3 L.Waner 2-9 Pop Out (SS) b-0 F0
1 1 3 K.Seitzer 3-2 Single (CF) 3-H 1-2 b-1 F0
1 12 R.Hill Sac Bunt (P) 2-3 1-2 b-0 F0
2 23 J.McGraw 2-8 Walk b-1 F0
2 123H.Duffy 4-11 Walk 3-H 2-3 1-2 b-1 F0
2 123H.Wagner 1-8 Single (RF) 3-H 2-H 1-3 b-1 F0
2 1 3 T.Cobb 2-3 Pop Out (2B) b-0 F0

TOP OF INNING 7
0 R.Carew 2-10 Single (CF) b-1 bpSI 1-11 F0
0 1 J.Lucroy 1-5 Triple (CF) 1-H b-3 F0
0 3 L.Waner 1-6 Sac Fly (CF) 3-H b-0 F0
1 K.Seitzer 1-8 Walk b-1 F0
1 1 R.Hill Sac Bunt (1B) 1-2 b-0 F0
2 2 J.McGraw 1-8 Single (CF) 2-3 b-1 F0
2 1 3 H.Duffy 3-8 Walk 1-2 b-1 F0
2 123H.Wagner 3-5 Walk 3-H 2-3 1-2 b-1 F0
2 123T.Cobb 3-6 Double & Error - CF 3-H 2-H 1-H b-H F0
SUBSTITUTION at P: Dennis Eckersley (R)
SUBSTITUTION at SS: Jim Gantner
2 R.Carew 3-8 Fly Out (RF) b-0 F9

Perfect example of the new bullpen “enhancements.” B.J. Ryan comes in as an F0, gives up 13 or so runs - I lost count - and finally Eckersley comes in as an F9. I’ve found extended F0 outings with >10 earned runs to be very common with the new rules. I’ve pretty much given up setting the bullpen at all and allow HAL to run it. So, what’s happened is we have a system that’s equally unrealistic as the 300-400 inning super relievers and we no longer have bullpen control. How about we revert to the old rules and keep the new pricing?

So, what’s happened is we have a system that’s equally unrealistic as the 300-400 inning super relievers and we no longer have bullpen control. How about we revert to the old rules and keep the new pricing?

I could live with that.

So what I am hearing is that the actual “black box” would enforce rules that contradict what the website says and allow for a one in 26,318 chance to occur as a “penalty” which is unwritten in the rules are so we should be careful in how we interpret the rules?

Bullpen logic was always bad by HAL, it has gotten worse with the new "rules" I agree with djmacb that the old rules should be returned with new pricing. The double dose of medicine has made the game unplayable.

Yup.
And I also agree with the thoughts here on ditching the double dose of the cure and just retaining the pricing.
It has made the reliever part of the game sterile at best. In its worst light, it has removed relief pitching (and therefore overall pitching to an extent) strategy from the core of the game we pay for, making the game overall either unplayable or a boring exercise in general.

what about tighting the FO down...too many guys are pitching 120 plus pitch complete games and tighten up the FO for relievers so you cant have a 100 t0 300 inning "super reliever"..I realize not as many RPs are carried as a real life team but this game is set for up for too many innings for too few pichers...dont see a fix for that..as far as a more "realistic" game do something about the batters with less than 400 ABs having the same injury chance and penaty as a 500 plus AB guy..as far as the pitching goes not sure you can have it both ways..sounds like you guys wantb to be made to use more RPs which Im ok with...changing the rules back and keeping the pricing I dont think will get rid of the 200 inning super reliever in my opinion..which I detest...maybe quit making R3 and R4 pitchers out of guys who pitched less than 60 or 70 innings would be a better way imho......just thoughts from a "newbie" so be kind with your replies

I don’t see using Don’t Relieve Before F0 as any kind of an advantage at all. I wish all my opponents would use Don’t Relieve Before F0 with total abandon

I can't stand the super reliever either--probably an unpopular opinion, but I haven't had too many problems with the new bullpen settings. HAL has never been great at that stuff, but I don't see it as being demonstrably worse. Historically, I haven't used my settings to "hide" the worst guys in my bullpen and steer him towards the best--but then again, I don't win too many championships either. Lol.

I do wish we had a little more insight into the internal logic of some of HALs algorithms.

I do agree on the injury thing for batters. Again, probably an unpopular opinion, but I think a sliding injury scale that makes all players with fewer than 600 PAs susceptible to injury roughly analogous to their PAs would be good. I also think that even "bulletproof" guys should have some (minimal) injury liability. (Be thankful I don't make the rules around here).

On the example at the top of the thread (FrankieT)--I am assuming that there was a fresh reliever available that could/should have entered? what were your settings?

There is an element of black humor here (and no Freeman, that is not a racist statement, but feel free to bloviate ad infinitum, ad nauseum as you appear compelled to do whenever I post).

The manager of this travesty was none other than the recently minted Strat 'Legend,' Arky Ark Ark Himself! I know this as I am in the league. The humorous part is that this 'Legend' plunked down 65 Million on a pitching staff in a 100M league and still managed (I use the term loosely, but can't resist the pun) to produce this masterpiece of ineptitude.

It is especially humorous because his peen consists of Eckersley, Sutter (the lesser, an interesting place to economize on pitching!!) B.J. Ryan and Linzy, and he is in a neutral park with a 4 aces starting staff worth just shy of $48M.

Oh and btw, he 'managed' to get swept at home 25-4, 8-1 and 9-2 and is now 3-15 with an era in the mid 7's as his offense has cranked out 31 runs in 18 games.

Unfortunately though he is in Frank's division, not mine.

I don’t see using Don’t Relieve Before F0 as any kind of an advantage at all. I wish all my opponents would use Don’t Relieve Before F0 with total abandon

Absolutely...this game in question was a 20-something to single digit affair...can use more of those--so what am I thinking even bring this up...