The Goat of all Goats?

This discussion really needs to be in a pub or a coffee shop

A ton of arguments can be made in favour of so many great athletes.

When we all do hook up to further discuss this topic, whether it be this trip around the sun, or in some future time and place, I will pick up the tab!!! BUT THERE IS ONE CAVEAT!!!

Being a Canuck, I must insist that the (3) sports become 4. And my selections as of Feb 10/2021 Are.

Baseball: Ruth, Williams and a bunch of others. Football: Brady Bunch and Jim Brown Basketball: MJ, MJ, MJ

Hockey: Bobby Orr and Gretzky.

Thats it. Remember now. I am picking up the TAB. Drink Responsibly please.

You could invite us all to your mountain retreat in the Smokies!

I appreciate all the comments- well thought out and intelligent- I am in a group where a large percentage of fans claim that Pete Rose is the goat- Makes my blood boil so ignorant

You could invite us all to your mountain retreat in the Smokies!

Oh crap! Before I can do that, I must receive and cash my stimulus cheque!

Please stay tuned.

It’s Gretzky. He stood on the shoulders of Howe (Detroit) and Orr (Boston). There have been many a beverage spilled over this point, and I’m still standing....
As for basketball, I seem to recall it be a game invented by a Canadian...

I don't think football is a sport where you can have a single GOAT. You can't really compare positions to pick out one top dog. Brady winning all those rings on the surface sure seals the argument for him for the QB GOAT, but take a closer look if the rings are your measurement of success:




For Tampa this year, 3 TDs and a clean passing game but who's gonna say that the defense and Fournette didn't have just as much to do with the win?

Solid game management vs. LA, but no TD passes and a pick. That was a team win.

He was spectacular but came up short vs. Philly in 2018. This one's on Bill for benching Butler inexplicably.

He clearly was the difference against Atlanta, although James White is still saying what about me, Edelman's circus catch made it all possible, and an conveniently forgotten pick 6 by TB made it harder.

He was good vs. Seattle, but wasn't that really on Pete for not letting Lynch just win it for Seattle?

Eli and JPP get him for a second time in 2011, a pedestrian performance by TB.

2007, with his best offensive team to date, he comes up short to Eli, with a pedestrian performance.

2005, pedestrian performance, team win.

2004, good game by Brady, but he was matched by Delhomme. A classic "Brady to Vinatieri". Team win.

2001, nice game management, and a great 4th quarter drive that Bill allowed him to engineer rather than listen to the John Madden's of the world who wanted to play it safe. Clearly a team win, with the first of many "Brady to Vinatieri" wins. But Bill stuck with him as the starter, and he let him go for it with 1 minute to play. Sometimes you have to allow the GOAT to be the GOAT. If they don't go for that, maybe the Rams win and none of this stuff ever happens?



A fun trip down memory lane. I'm a Pats fan, and I'm not taking part in the current New England Bill vs. Tom nonsense because to me, none of this success happens without each of them being together. Plus this is just looking at super bowls. One of, if not the biggest reason he has had so much success in the post season is because they never had to sweat much to get there, they got the easy division and usually a bye because of that. Every time. The ineptitude of the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins during this period probably hasn't been matched by any other division in the game.

The perfect situation, and they took advantage of it for nearly 20 years.

I think Druid points out something important that also helps elevate Tom over the rest of the QBs, that's his ability to get the most of his teammates, to lead by example and to instill confidence in even the bleakest of situations. I've seen that for his entire career, and it carries into the defense too. It's special, for sure. Hell, he got Gronk to leave his puzzles and miserable back aches to come play a full season at what looked like pretty good form. Hmmm......

But he didn't do all this on his own. That's my whole point here.

Good post PJ, the only thing I would like to add is that one thing that is often overlooked in the Seattle Super Bowl victory
(Malcom Butler/Pete Carroll) is that down by 11 points in the fourth quarter, Brady engineered 2 long scoring drives against one of the great defenses in modern day football! Most fans immediately think of the goal line play when this game is mentioned but long forgotten is that this game was classic Brady when it mattered most. One could argue the GOAT endlessly, but for me the true test is simple; and that is down by 4 or 5 points in the fourth quarter which QB would you want to lead your team needing a touchdown? Brady !

Good post PJ, the only thing I would like to add is that one thing that is often overlooked in the Seattle Super Bowl victory
(Malcom Butler/Pete Carroll) is that down by 11 points in the fourth quarter, Brady engineered 2 long scoring drives against one of the great defenses in modern day football! Most fans immediately think of the goal line play when this game is mentioned but long forgotten is that this game was classic Brady when it mattered most. One could argue the GOAT endlessly, but for me the true test is simple; and that is down by 4 or 5 points in the fourth quarter which QB would you want to lead your team needing a touchdown? Brady !

Maybe or have you ever heard of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drive

I was never a Brady acolyte until this move and success at TB. I respected him as a very good QB but I always believed Bellichick was the system and Brady a competent piece. Wrongly I think. It was more likely him.

But I have to say--football has an uneven emphasis on the QB position, maybe more than any other position, all things considered. No one does it alone--not even the Babe--though he was close. He changed the way his game was played--Jordan and Brady didn't.

But with the Babe note we focus on his individual stats. Jordan had a great impact on the 4 guys around him and he had stats too--none of his teammates were ever as good without him.
In football, stats are there, but we focus on Brady's ability to always seem to be in the thick of things when it counts. Title opportunities.

At the QB position, one could argue that if managed well, a superb QB field general who can also execute could have many positive effects outside the QB position:

- clear assignments and priorities for the OL--being consistent and clear helps them attack vs get caught flat-footed. Helps the whole offense move as unit.

- Solid ball control and deep threat when appropriate allows the pressure to be taken off the defense and off individual skill players in general

- Calm leadership under stress due to extreme game planning and contingency preparations--there is no substitute for this in-game. Either you prepared or not--it affects the whole team. J Winston was never prepared. Oh my alma mater has fallen hard.

Anyway, I can't argue what he did over the season at TB. They think and prepare like professionals who expect to win now. They didn't have this before. Fournette is huge, the defense superb--but I can no longer call it a coincidence that people around Brady seem to play better than they do without him. Removing him would have a larger impact on the overall outcome than any other single player in this case. At least, that's what the results show.

For me, it's as simple as that.

A few details on Brady's leadership skills...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... Bc5bEtdJZc

It's funny...I have kind of a schizoid view of Brady. Off the field I dont care for his politics and his bland, corporate persona annoys me. But as a football player I have immense respect for him. I never bought into the idea there were two geniuses in New England...