Pitcher Roles- Select or Computer?

For best sabermetrics do you think it is best to define pitcher roles or simply let the computer do its thing?

The pitching rolls have been screwed ever since they stopped letting you define more than two roles---I will never understand that rule--they instituted that rule along with IP rules to try to control super reliever innings pitched, they didn't need to mess with the pitchers rolls to accomplish that.

I don't know what to tell you as I have little idea what Hal will do with the bullpen anymore---the three batter rule compounded it even more(though that one is a legitimate rule as mlb adopted it) as low cost specialist are now a guaranteed liability.

Because rolls are limited the bad pitchers get it the game often--(especially with a lead) even when there are supposedly rested RP available that are better--if the roll isn't defined HAL seems to make the worst choice it can much too often.

It has been frustrating watching the AI throw away won games on a regular basis the last few seasons.

I still try to use rolls, but they are often totally ignored by the AI or there is no pitcher available (he needs rest) -- if the roll isn't defined or the guy defined to the roll isn't available--you have no idea what Hal will do--in short it doesn't seem to make much difference if you use them or not anymore.

I agree with you there Milleram! Numerous times, even with the added "rest" periods, the AI will use a primary closer, even though he has just thrown 4 games in a row, instead of the 5 other guys who are rested.

I guess it means, "we will rest your guys who have overpitched --- or not"

well trying to help this time.

I would set a closer and a setup for sure-----Setup is the most important spot as they get more innings that the closer.

I usually have a closer that is good but not necessarily great, and my most expensive RP is the setup--even if most expensive can close--It depends on the team chemistry, but I usually do not set my closer to maximize--setting him to maximize limits his innings, and also limits when Hal will use him as the AI will tend to hold him back until a save opportunity comes up--as when the game is tied late or in extra innings

(one of the reasons I despise the two roll limit--why is tied and late and tied and extras two different rolls???, and if my setup/closer is fresh he should also be able to come into tied and late, or tied and extras--yet HAL will go to any lesser pitcher that is available 1st--completely illogical AI)

well trying to help this time.

I would set a closer and a setup for sure-----Setup is the most important spot as they get more innings that the closer.

I usually have a closer that is good but not necessarily great, and my most expensive RP is the setup--even if most expensive can close--It depends on the team chemistry, but I usually do not set my closer to maximize--setting him to maximize limits his innings, and also limits when Hal will use him as the AI will tend to hold him back until a save opportunity comes up--as when the game is tied late or in extra innings

(one of the reasons I despise the two roll limit--why is tied and late and tied and extras two different rolls???, and if my setup/closer is fresh he should also be able to come into tied and late, or tied and extras--yet HAL will go to any lesser pitcher that is available 1st--completely illogical AI)

I dont agree that HAL will always go to a lesser pitcher first. My closer comes in quite often in close games even when tied or even slightly behind. You should check to make sure that you dont have your team set for maximize closer usage in the team settings as that will definitely keep your closer from coming in except in save situations.

To answer your question, I don't think many teams would benefit from setting no relief pitcher roles. I've experimented with leaving everything blank a few times and HAL's management was really bad. Using those roles, even now that they are limited to 2 per pitcher will help you funnel more innings to your higher paid relievers.

This online game is a strange mishmash of baseball simulation and trying out deeply understand and outwit the AI.

I think SOM feels it has a sort of obligation to make the game results and stats as close to real MLB as it's practically possible because that's really where they have historically made their name. People here have very differing viewpoints on that obligation as many don't care one single iota about being "realistic", it really more like super complicated game of chess and optimizing the chess pieces and their movements (and winning) is the challenge. With bullpen logic, in the Major Leagues there is some real motivation to minimize overuse of your bullpen assets--last year, for example, no MLB reliever pitched over 84 innings. In this game, if I pay 6 million for a reliever, I want him out there every damn game to get my money's worth. And those 50 cent guys can ride the pine and never pitch even if that other guy's arm falls off. So, SOM has a difficult balancing act to _force_ us armchair GMs to make sub-optimal decisions for motivations that really don't have a tangible benefit for an online game.

That being said, I don't think SOMs obligation to realistic outcomes is entirely misplaced. The less like real baseball this becomes, the harder it is for newcomers to jump in, or when they do, the successful teams look nothing like a real MLB baseball team and they quickly lose interest. However, with so many variable in play, coming up with changes that everyone will like is nearly impossible.

It seems like when I define roles it does not listen and makes horrible decisions whereas when I do not define it seems to make better calls. I have everything set to normal usage and defined only closer, setup and middle man. Seems to work better with simplicity. I suppose once you are into your low paid RP you are doomed either way.

On a micro level, looking at individual game decisions, yes it can often look horrible for sure. But on a macro level, those pitchers with more key roles tend to pitch more innings, which is kinda what your aiming for. It's a shotgun though, not a rifle.

With the "only 2 roles allowed" and relievers must face 3 guys or end an inning rule, the lefty/righty specialist roles have certainly lost some value with these latest sets. I've seen guys spend money differently because of that spreading the wealth further down to the bottom of the bullpen rather than 2 or 3 highly paid relievers and the rest scrubs. It's not entirely clear to me that this has always been successful though. You can still get 180+ innings out of an expensive R2 pitcher, so there are still ways to use the roles to maximize that a LOT.

A smidge off-topic, but here's an email Strat never answered:

How is it that Addie Joss gave up a 3 run HR, top of the 5th, game 66

The play-by-play ticker indicates Yaz hit that dinger off Joss on a 6-6 roll. Funny though, 6-6 on Joss's card is 'gb(ss)B'.

Guess I'm simply curious if the action I've been spending all too much time watching may only be a suggestion of what happened in the game?

Crickets...

They ruined bullpen control when they limited RPs to two roles. In what world can a MLB reliever only pitch in two roles for an entire season? Ridiculous. RP should be allowed to serve in a MINIMUM of 4 roles. Heck, they used to be able to serve in 11 roles.

It's simply ridiculous and the reason I mostly play the Mystery, Daily or retro sets.