Explain all of this to me???

Game 159 of the season:

https://365.strat-o-matic.com/game/play ... 458992/951

Look at the bottom of the 8th inning. Mike Garman who is set to avoid lefties / quick hook (with Joe Sambito in the bullpen) comes in and faces 13 batters, 11 of which are left handed. Every single one of them reaches base (including the fielders choice, I know it doesn't really count but work with me here).

So here's where it gets even crazier ... He never drops below F9???? And when HAL does replace him, he chooses Steve Crawford instead of Joe Sambito to face Weintraub and Bonds (2 more lefties).

My team was up 6-4 going into that inning and ended up losing the wildcard via the tie breaker!!

By the way, this too happened on Sunday Night!

I'm not entirely certain, but Sambito pitched 2 innings in game 158, perhaps he was unavailable? I haven't figured out the bullpen logic yet, it is highly frustrating.

Bullpen logic?
Is there such a thing?

Bullpen logic?
Is there such a thing?

no

I'm not entirely certain, but Sambito pitched 2 innings in game 158, perhaps he was unavailable? I haven't figured out the bullpen logic yet, it is highly frustrating.

Agreed about that, but that still doesn't explain how the heck Garman DIDN'T drop below F9 despite giving up 12 runs and not getting a single batter out???

Rich, unfortunately it is an unanswerable question.
Why?
Because the fatigue determination is not simply number of batters or hits compared to an endurance rating.

BPv3 includes the following attributes:
- It determines a pitcher's fatigue pitch count before each outing. This pitch count may not correlate with the endurance rating. For instance, an R2 who made 80 pitches 2 days ago, may need an extra day of rest (a 2 day break).

- Based on the target pitch count, the fatigue factor is determined. If Garman was well rested based on the pitch counts over his prior appearances, he may be in a situation where he can go longer than expected. However, there is no algorithm we can use to determine how many pitches approximately equate to hits or outs. Presumably, there is some assumption--maybe a lot of hits results in few pitches. While strikeout pitchers accumulate more pitches.

- With Sambito, you would have to look at his pitch count trend heading into the night, and then ensure there were no other business rules set that would cause HAL to avoid using him.

The problem with all of this--as is the recent discussion of transparency with max rules, is that we don't know when Sambito might not be available. If we want realism to the extreme, how about telling us Sambito is not available for 2 days due to throwing 150 pitches the prior 3 days or something. In "real life" we would know if he were available.

I hate using that ridiculous realism argument because I don't agree with the whole realism argument, but if that's their angle on all of this, it seems they have created a more complex and unrealistic system that supplants the card and dice system that is in black and white.

Fine.

But tell me when you depart from the stated rules of the game, else I'm done.

In ATG 8 this rarely to never used to happen. This is yet another evidence why the ATG9 bullpen engine is inferior to what we had from July 2014 thru March 2020.

I don't know why the COMMUNITY doesn't stand up and demand a return to the ATG8 bullpen logic and keeping the ATG9 reliever pricing.

In ATG 8 this rarely to never used to happen. This is yet another evidence why the ATG9 bullpen engine is inferior to what we had from July 2014 thru March 2020.

I don't know why the COMMUNITY doesn't stand up and demand a return to the ATG8 bullpen logic and keeping the ATG9 reliever pricing.

Because what we have now, while infuriating and ridiculous at times, is STILL somehow BETTER than allowing a stud RP to appear in a 140 games with 200+ innings using his peak ratings.

I get the feeling I'm not alone when I say that I'm extremely disenchanted with this game right now.

It's much more playable now that the singular SP strategy is to have your starters pitch to F0 and extra innings every outing and have a bullpen of .50 guys who get 5 innings over the course of an entire season?

Basically, we never tried the approach Brad is speaking about--which would have been a stepwise transition--use the salary structure first before changing the game mechanics which has had all kinds of ridiculous second order affects on strategy and gameplay that have made the game highly one-dimensional for pitching.