Juicing and PEDS and HR records

Interesting couple articles here:

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/do ... s-juicing/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/29/opinions ... index.html

I'm open minded. Seems clear steroids are a much bigger PED than greenies (amphetimines). I love Aaron, but he apparently benefited from something to get him on the field every day at a later age and he had a Bonds-like twilight -- 40 HRs at age 39, 47 at age 37. Really? Read the CBS News article! I think steroids were used well before the so-called steroid age.

It's hard to bestow HR king crown on anyone, career-wise or season-wise. Frankly, everyone has their flaws, despite their utter greatness. Ruth played in a very limited player pool, no black players; Aaron has issues as described above; Bonds, Sosa and McGwire clearly took steroids. Out of the bunch, I'd say Ruth was the best given how far he outperformed his contemporaries.

Unless something turns up about Aaron Judge, his season is truly special. Just saying.

Aaron spent his 20s in an extreme pitcher's park and his 30s in an extreme hitter's park, that could easily explain the shape of his HR production.

The whole Aaron-greenies connection is wildly overblown. The only documentation is a single paragraph from his autobiography in which he talks about trying them once and never again because they made him feel like he was about to have a heart attack. There is absolutely no reason to think he was a habitual user.

As far as House's claims, I would need to see more corroboration before accepting that anabolic steroids were as rampant in the 60s and 70s as they were in the 90s. But I have no trouble believing they played some non-zero role in the sport.

It's a bit silly that the PED question is still so associated with home runs when if you look at the guys who get busted, they are all different types of players. Many are fringe players. Dee Gordon was a juicer but for some reason that doesn't cause us to look more suspiciously at say, Omar Vizquel or Bill Doran.

Good points. But steroids were prevalent in sports in the 1970s: https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ste ... 0503270168

Baseball, before and during 1970s: https://nyulocal.com/juicin-in-the-majo ... facd1cbcfb

Eric Byrnes: https://www.si.com/si-wire/2013/09/03/e ... s-steroids

Clear it was happening long before the so-called era. Just my 2 cents.

I'm just saying it's stupid to have this definitive timeline -- imaginary -- between when steroids were used in baseball and when that ended. Seems like a MLB and media narrative. Wake up! It's been around a lot longer, and continues to be.

That makes sense. Honestly I'd never thought much about how self-serving it is for the league to confine the scandal to one specific era. At any rate, we can definitely agree that Judge's season is truly insane.

Aaron played the first 12 years of his career in the hardest stadium to hit HRs in---County Stadium.
Ruth played in a stadium built specifically for his swing, 297" to the RF foul pole. And you wonder why Oscar
Gamble one year hit all, every single one of his homers, at home, at Yankee stadium. This advantage for Ruth's
statistics is a monster.
You put Aaron in the Atlanta stadium for his entire career and he would have more than likely topped 800.
After some time, McGwire admitted to using PEDs.
Bonds has always denied it, but looking at his stats and his body those years he hit unreal numbers, we all know
that he used them. Same with Sammy Sosa.

So.....asteriks are meaningless. the bottom line, is the HOF, at least so far, has not voted in anyone who clearly used
PEDs. As long as the HOF continues that mantle, that will be the greatest deterrent.

The real fault lies with Bud Selig. He was commish when the use of PEDs took off, and he could have stopped it, with the same approach as used for betting on baseball--i.e. if you do it, you are out of baseball for life. If Selig had had the gumption to that, the issue would be moot today.

huge mistake. huge.

And yet Selig got voted into the HOF no problem...

Aaron played the first 12 years of his career in the hardest stadium to hit HRs in---County Stadium.
Ruth played in a stadium built specifically for his swing, 297" to the RF foul pole. And you wonder why Oscar
Gamble one year hit all, every single one of his homers, at home, at Yankee stadium. This advantage for Ruth's
statistics is a monster.

Valid point and it no doubt had a big impact. Aaron is one of my favorite 2 or 3 players. Really hasn't been anyone as consistent as him day after day for so long across so many facets of the game. a 5-tool guy with a keen baseball mind who made good decisions and selflessly helped his teams.

The only caveat I'd offer for Ruth (who is not one of my favorites btw) is he wasn't the only lefty hitting in that park, and in his era there were very few people who were even close in most years. He was the first to annual totals for 30, 40, 50, 60. As for PEDs, heck I guess whiskey and hot dogs were his. And of course in 1922 and 1925 he was not very Ruthian due to missing a bunch of games...but he put a hole in his stomach in 1925. He was right back at it in 1926.

I'm just saying it's stupid to have this definitive timeline -- imaginary -- between when steroids were used in baseball and when that ended. Seems like a MLB and media narrative. Wake up! It's been around a lot longer, and continues to be.

Yup