6* Pitchers - Do They Suck?

I don't use them often but every time I do they just do terribly. Bad era and a losing record and I always regret it. Now this could be be making poor decisions but I feel like HAL gets greedy and keeps them in tired for too long. Anyone have success with these guys?

I've had plenty of success with 6* Gerritt Cole

I used Jose Fernandez 2013. In 30 starts he went 16-3 with a 2.41 ERA. He got injured for 15 games, which left a bad taste in my mouth. I know that was just random, but I have not used him since.

I've had plenty of success with 6* Gerritt Cole

He does look brutal!

I used Jose Fernandez 2013. In 30 starts he went 16-3 with a 2.41 ERA. He got injured for 15 games, which left a bad taste in my mouth. I know that was just random, but I have not used him since.

That's a shame. Always stings to see a dream run go awry. Now that I think of it, I did have a fantastic season with Jim Kaat.

The Kaat $3.88 is a decent card for the price.

The Kaat $3.88 is a decent card for the price.

1.8 HRs in a smallball park seems like a lot for a no power team to overcome, 4.65 in a homer park would seem he'll get rocked.
How has his W-L been impacted by HRs?

The Kaat $3.88 is a decent card for the price.

1.8 HRs in a smallball park seems like a lot for a no power team to overcome, 4.65 in a homer park would seem he'll get rocked.
How has his W-L been impacted by HRs?

Your comment made me stop and think. In reality, I have yet to use Kaat $3.88, so I have no actual data. The 1.8 HR chances do not scare me. I tend to overlook HR chances to some degree for pitchers that have lower OBP. Kaat only has 23.6 OB chances. My rating system is kind of personalized (wacky?), but I have Kaat $3.88 as the 125th best starter in terms of value in Petco, so top 8%. I sees now your earlier comment was probably about Kaat $5.18. He comes in as a top 20 value. Next time I do a 5-man rotation, I will try him!

The Kaat $3.88 is a decent card for the price.

x1,000,000

In SOM's bogus (no sample size!!!) Stats History tab in the player pool, Kaat has averaged 14-11 with a 4.24 ERA. Seems great to me! Especially considering alot of us search for cheapo SP who can win 40-50% of their decisions. We structure teams to where that's coming out waaaay ahead.

I think since ATG2 Kaat has been a little off-the-charts good. His price decrease from ATG8 to ATG9 was significant and he was palatable even at that inflated priced in ATG8 after being an iconic cards for so many versions. If you don't need the innings, it's just an advantage if the pricing formula dinged him (or any S6/S7) enough enough for being low END. He's cheap, so why pay for a S9 when you don't want your #4 on a small-ball team pitching 9? Kaat is the best S6 in the deck imho. Somehow, my pricing formula has him at 6.0% overpriced which is blasphemous!

BR Bal: -7.17 (seems great for price, despite hurt by vsR)
NERP Bal: 7.58 (seems fine)
other NERP: 1.94 (0.368 is from END. kinda high from bad 1e33 def, BP#s, low Ks and imbalance tax)

Total NERP: 9.52 -----> my formula says this should be $3.66, which isn't too different from $3.88, but that's 6.0%. My formula has a flaw with saying the $2mil pitchers (cheapest from which pricing suggestions are based on) are good values by not factoring what should be an increasing cost for each marginal NERP improvement.) It doesn't love alot of players in the "middle" as much.

Sticking with just Kaat, I think this is a little more fair because all of those things are slighly mitigate-able. Don't play in R-heavy league/division/ballpark/rotation spot. If you don't need the IP, who needs the S7* from a ~#4? We should only play guys when it's their ideal circumstances and when it is for Kaat, he's crazy surplus value. **My formula was for pricing for a career pool off ATG9 prices, so not especially for best ATG9 Values. Plus it assumes for far less exploitable Ballparks and Rosters etc.

Now, I don't play/pay many S6*s, but love me Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown and many S7*s at more elite price points

The Kaat $3.88 is a decent card for the price.

x1,000,000

In SOM's bogus (no sample size!!!) Stats History tab in the player pool, Kaat has averaged 14-11 with a 4.24 ERA. Seems great to me! Especially considering alot of us search for cheapo SP who can win 40-50% of their decisions. We structure teams to where that's coming out waaaay ahead.

I think since ATG2 Kaat has been a little off-the-charts good. His price decrease from ATG8 to ATG9 was significant and he was palatable even at that inflated priced in ATG8 after being an iconic cards for so many versions. If you don't need the innings, it's just an advantage if the pricing formula dinged him (or any S6/S7) enough enough for being low END. He's cheap, so why pay for a S9 when you don't want your #4 on a small-ball team pitching 9? Kaat is the best S6 in the deck imho. Somehow, my pricing formula has him at 6.0% overpriced which is blasphemous!

BR Bal: -7.17 (seems great for price, despite hurt by vsR)
NERP Bal: 7.58 (seems fine)
other NERP: 1.94 (0.368 is from END. kinda high from bad 1e33 def, BP#s, low Ks and imbalance tax)

Total NERP: 9.52 -----> my formula says this should be $3.66, which isn't too different from $3.88, but that's 6.0%. My formula has a flaw with saying the $2mil pitchers (cheapest from which pricing suggestions are based on) are good values by not factoring what should be an increasing cost for each marginal NERP improvement.) It doesn't love alot of players in the "middle" as much.

Sticking with just Kaat, I think this is a little more fair because all of those things are slighly mitigate-able. Don't play in R-heavy league/division/ballpark/rotation spot. If you don't need the IP, who needs the S7* from a ~#4? We should only play guys when it's their ideal circumstances and when it is for Kaat, he's crazy surplus value. **My formula was for pricing for a career pool off ATG9 prices, so not especially for best ATG9 Values. Plus it assumes for far less exploitable Ballparks and Rosters etc.

Now, I don't play/pay many S6*s, but love me Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown and many S7*s at more elite price points

I think what was said here is very important. “In the right environment”. A 6* ( or no *) can thrive when the environment is right. I also agree with trying to put that pitcher towards the back of the rotation. I also use some 7’s. Usually ones that are extreme with my park. If I’m in Forbes I’ve had plenty of good teams with Schilling , Darwin , sheets etc or if I’m in a bomber park I’ll use the ones that don’t have ball park hrs (or any hrs). It’s all about finding the right fit and every puzzle is different.

I always see to get a disproportionatly good result from this Kaat card--better than I'd expect from his NERP or BR ratings. I'm usually using him in a lefty park in a 80M league, pitching in the #4 slot.
A decent SP* in the #4 slot at a lower cap can do well because he's competing against weaker pitchers, which may help account for wins that are higher than expectations.